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bundy5
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Posted - 23 May 2013 :  18:40:57  Show Profile Send bundy5 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trev

quote:
Originally posted by bundy5

I shouldn't be surprised as he has always been about himself and is a very shallow man but for a former PM to have such low principles is really inexcusable (and that's not about supporting gay marriage but the hypocrisy of his change in position to support it )

probably part of the reason the ALP flicked him (and were roundly criticised at the time, but that is a whole other issue



You also have to remember that the Rudd government didn't really make decisions from the consensus of the whole cabinet getting involved but rather they were made either from Rudd himself or his inner sanctum of 3 ministers - Swan, Gillard and Tanner.


To respond to Bruce in the NRL thread: it is probably the single hardest loss I have had to deal with at Souths to lose Bully. Much worse than Sam Burgess as he didn't symbolise Souths as Bully did. I think a lot will underestimate just how much a loss he will be to Souths but I fully understand how engrossed he is with NZ and I think given that he will make the successful transition that others haven't.
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Madaz
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Posted - 23 May 2013 :  20:14:24  Show Profile Send Madaz a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply

Who cares what Rudd or any other politician thinks about gay marriage?

They are not there to vote for their own views, they are there to represent the majority view of their electorate.

And that goes for other issues as well.


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bundy5
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Posted - 23 May 2013 :  23:20:03  Show Profile Send bundy5 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Madaz



They are not there to vote for their own views, they are there to represent the majority view of their electorate.




Not when it comes to conscience issues. And the definition of marriage is a conscience issue.

To respond to Bruce in the NRL thread: it is probably the single hardest loss I have had to deal with at Souths to lose Bully. Much worse than Sam Burgess as he didn't symbolise Souths as Bully did. I think a lot will underestimate just how much a loss he will be to Souths but I fully understand how engrossed he is with NZ and I think given that he will make the successful transition that others haven't.
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Trev
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Posted - 24 May 2013 :  06:22:39  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Madaz


Who cares what Rudd or any other politician thinks about gay marriage?

They are not there to vote for their own views, they are there to represent the majority view of their electorate.

And that goes for other issues as well.



I think you might be surprised if it went to a referendum, you are talking to people your age, but most people 40 and above would disagree and there are more of them than under 40's

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bigem
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Posted - 24 May 2013 :  12:29:04  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Abbotts lot have to stop ****-canning this country and its people.

Every time one of them is on TV all they do is attack the competence of the Australian people, there lack of respect for us is disgusting!!


New Commodore Hey! So you used your own money? Would you like to buy a used bridge?
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27GV
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Posted - 24 May 2013 :  18:48:36  Show Profile Send 27GV a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bigem

Abbotts lot have to stop ****-canning this country and its people.

Every time one of them is on TV all they do is attack the competence of the Australian people, there lack of respect for us is disgusting!!





+1

And I'd like them to come out and state their position on raising the GST.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/17279813/the-people-would-decide-on-gst-abbott/

quote:
Mr Abbott and his shadow treasurer Joe Hockey have said the GST will be included in a tax review if the coalition wins power at the September 14 election, unlike the Labor government's Henry tax review which excluded the GST.


Which is it Tony, no change to the GST or is it 'under review'?

Latest I heard is they plan to raise it to 12% and put it on various items that Howard was smart enough not to tax. All to replace the revenue from the carbon tax.

Shifting the costs from the polluters to the public. Abbott is an embarrassment.

I hope Turnbull knifes him in the back on day one.


_Mford
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Legendary Gerry
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Posted - 24 May 2013 :  18:55:15  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by 27GV

quote:
Originally posted by bigem

Abbotts lot have to stop ****-canning this country and its people.

Every time one of them is on TV all they do is attack the competence of the Australian people, there lack of respect for us is disgusting!!





+1

And I'd like them to come out and state their position on raising the GST.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/17279813/the-people-would-decide-on-gst-abbott/

quote:
Mr Abbott and his shadow treasurer Joe Hockey have said the GST will be included in a tax review if the coalition wins power at the September 14 election, unlike the Labor government's Henry tax review which excluded the GST.


Which is it Tony, no change to the GST or is it 'under review'?

Latest I heard is they plan to raise it to 12% and put it on various items that Howard was smart enough not to tax. All to replace the revenue from the carbon tax.

Shifting the costs from the polluters to the public. Abbott is an embarrassment.

I hope Turnbull knifes him in the back on day one.



What whoever is in charge of whatever party is in power wants in regard to GST %age doesn't carry that much weight as it is up to every state and territory, not the central government.
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AlbertM
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Posted - 24 May 2013 :  19:13:38  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
GST flows through the federal treasury and then handed to the states. All the feds would have to do is cut off the states that oppose a raise and they will capitulate.

So funny watching the Libs cry "big bad tax" "Carbon tax will be a wrecking ball through the economy" only for the party to call for a GST increase.

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford
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Madaz
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Posted - 24 May 2013 :  20:03:54  Show Profile Send Madaz a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bundy5

quote:
Originally posted by Madaz



They are not there to vote for their own views, they are there to represent the majority view of their electorate.




Not when it comes to conscience issues. And the definition of marriage is a conscience issue.


Nope, it doesn't matter what the pollies think.

They are there to represent the majority view of their electorate, whatever that view may be.

And that applies to any issue - gay marriage, boat people, whatever...

The problem is the pollies forget this as soon as they get to Canberra.


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bigem
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Posted - 24 May 2013 :  21:02:50  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Madaz

quote:
Originally posted by bundy5

quote:
Originally posted by Madaz



They are not there to vote for their own views, they are there to represent the majority view of their electorate.




Not when it comes to conscience issues. And the definition of marriage is a conscience issue.


Nope, it doesn't matter what the pollies think.

They are there to represent the majority view of their electorate, whatever that view may be.

And that applies to any issue - gay marriage, boat people, whatever...

The problem is the pollies forget this as soon as they get to Canberra.





No mate, they don't forget, they just lie to get you to get them into Canberra!!

New Commodore Hey! So you used your own money? Would you like to buy a used bridge?
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bundy5
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Posted - 25 May 2013 :  08:11:51  Show Profile Send bundy5 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Madaz

quote:
Originally posted by bundy5

quote:
Originally posted by Madaz



They are not there to vote for their own views, they are there to represent the majority view of their electorate.




Not when it comes to conscience issues. And the definition of marriage is a conscience issue.


Nope, it doesn't matter what the pollies think.

They are there to represent the majority view of their electorate, whatever that view may be.

And that applies to any issue - gay marriage, boat people, whatever...

The problem is the pollies forget this as soon as they get to Canberra.




Well I guess if you look at the sheer mechanics of the actual vote in Parliament you will find your answer in that politicians invariably do not vote along party lines but rather vote in line with what they consciously or individually think about the particular issue - whether that be about marriage, abortion etc.

Other than these types of issues I don't really disagree with you.

To respond to Bruce in the NRL thread: it is probably the single hardest loss I have had to deal with at Souths to lose Bully. Much worse than Sam Burgess as he didn't symbolise Souths as Bully did. I think a lot will underestimate just how much a loss he will be to Souths but I fully understand how engrossed he is with NZ and I think given that he will make the successful transition that others haven't.
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Zac
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Posted - 25 May 2013 :  09:51:38  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
A 'conscience vote' is exactly that. It is when MPs are allowed to vote according to their own conscience, rather than according to party policy. In most votes taken in the House of Reps, MPs are required by their parties to vote according to party policy or risk being expelled from their party. Conscience votes are pretty rare, and usually on contentious issues like homosexual law and gay marriage - matters IMHO that don't really have any major effect on the way the country is governed, but tend to involve minority groups that make a lot of noise, and get a lot of other people worked up about things they don't really care about. People like me. If I really think about it, I don't support gay marriage, but it doesn't affect me, so I don't really care. AFAIK, around 5% of the population are lesbian/gay/bi/trans and probably only a small percentage of them want to get married, so what difference does it make to me if those that want to get married are legally allowed to? None. IF I was an MP, I'd vote for it so the noise would die down and politicians can go back to more important matters.

As to how many MPs actually have proper, operational consciences: Not many.
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bundy5
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Posted - 25 May 2013 :  19:03:04  Show Profile Send bundy5 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Zac

A 'conscience vote' is exactly that. It is when MPs are allowed to vote according to their own conscience, rather than according to party policy. In most votes taken in the House of Reps, MPs are required by their parties to vote according to party policy or risk being expelled from their party. Conscience votes are pretty rare, and usually on contentious issues like homosexual law and gay marriage - matters IMHO that don't really have any major effect on the way the country is governed, but tend to involve minority groups that make a lot of noise, and get a lot of other people worked up about things they don't really care about. People like me. If I really think about it, I don't support gay marriage, but it doesn't affect me, so I don't really care. AFAIK, around 5% of the population are lesbian/gay/bi/trans and probably only a small percentage of them want to get married, so what difference does it make to me if those that want to get married are legally allowed to? None. IF I was an MP, I'd vote for it so the noise would die down and politicians can go back to more important matters.

As to how many MPs actually have proper, operational consciences: Not many.



Thanks Zac


quote:
Originally posted by willsy

1000 people in a poll is pretty decent I would of thought bigcol?


Another Galaxy poll was published in the Courier Mail yesterday putting the LNP further in front at 57-43 two party preferred compared to 55-45 last poll. Only the most delusional would think that this poll does not reflect, as close as it could be, the public sentiment of Newman's performance.

To respond to Bruce in the NRL thread: it is probably the single hardest loss I have had to deal with at Souths to lose Bully. Much worse than Sam Burgess as he didn't symbolise Souths as Bully did. I think a lot will underestimate just how much a loss he will be to Souths but I fully understand how engrossed he is with NZ and I think given that he will make the successful transition that others haven't.

Edited by - bundy5 on 26 May 2013 11:35:30
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Zac
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Posted - 26 May 2013 :  18:09:07  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Speaking of polls: There was one of those "only poll that counts" polls this weekend. The NSW state seat of Northern Tablelands. A swing against independents to the Nationals of 30%. That seat is within the Federal seat of New England, held by Tony Windsor. He says it was only a "state issue" result. I doubt it.
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xr6man
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Posted - 26 May 2013 :  19:31:58  Show Profile  Click to see xr6man's MSN Messenger address Send xr6man a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Zac

Speaking of polls: There was one of those "only poll that counts" polls this weekend. The NSW state seat of Northern Tablelands. A swing against independents to the Nationals of 30%. That seat is within the Federal seat of New England, held by Tony Windsor . He says it was only a "state issue" result. I doubt it.



I now reside in the area you mention, and I think he'll be gone buy years end.
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