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AlbertM
Crackpot



12530 Posts
joined 15 Jan 03

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Posted - 20 Nov 2013 :  16:43:12  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Amazing how things turn around. Yes we should stay strong and stand our ground. However the same people digging in (read Abbott and the libs) are the same people that preached Australia shouldn't tell the world what to do. Like...Gillard addressing the G20 for example.

Give it time, Abbott will roll over. He has to if he wants to "stop the boats".

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
9778 Posts
joined 24 Dec 04

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Posted - 21 Nov 2013 :  17:37:39  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I heard Mark Scott (MD of the ABC) justifying why the ABC thought it the right and proper thing to do, releasing the information that Australia was eavesdropping on the Indonesian President's phone calls back in 2009. He says it's "in the public interest". Whether the national broadcaster should reveal such information, knowing full well that it would seriously harm Australia's relationship with Indonesia is another story. The info was illegally obtained by a bloke who has since fled to Russia, and is now living there in exile. The timing is also curious as both The Guardian newspaper (which initially got the news from Edward Snowden - the man hiding in Russia) and the ABC knew this in July, but they have only run the story now. I'm not sure why it's become such a big story, as virtually all countries try to spy on others. It's happening all the time, and a former Indonesian spy chief said today that Indonesia has been spying on Australia for ages. No surprise there. I guess now this story is "out there", SBY has to make a stand so he doesn't appear weak, especially as he's heading towards a presidential election. I hope he wins that election, because the alternative(s) are far less likely to be as friendly towards Australia. OTOH, there have been various news reports over the years revealing that various Australian politicians (including PMs) have had their phone calls monitored by spy agencies from other countries. I don't recall any of them jumping up and down about it.

Anyway, what I was leading to, is that while Mark Scott considers that this story that is causing so much angst for Australia is newsworthy, relevant, and had to be revealed, he's mightily upset that the salaries of ABC staff have been leaked to other media. Some might say - seeing it's the publicly funded ABC we're talking about, that it's "in the public interest". He doesn't agree. He's "extremely concerned", launching an investigation, and generally going on about how the salaries of his staff are extremely private and making them public is causing - and will cause, a lot of problems for the ABC. I'm not someone who uses the word 'hypocrite' lightly or frequently, but I can't think of a better word in this case.
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rabbits
Team Manager



Australia
5035 Posts
joined 19 Aug 03

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Posted - 22 Nov 2013 :  10:04:08  Show Profile Send rabbits a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
How's the ALP's form - Abbott invites Shorten to the table to handle the spy claim together because, well, its the ALP's fault despite them now trying to gain political mileage out of demanding Abbott apologise ( WHAT!!??? ). Bill gives him his word that he'll lay off, agreeing its a delicate situation and that what and how they say anything now makes a difference....

First thing Shorten stands up and says in Parliament the next day is that Abbott should handle it the way Obama handled Germany - inferring he must apologise. That twit Tanya is out and about gobbing off as well.......grubs....just lowdown, dirty, backstabbing cant-be-trusted grubs. Rudd and Gillard might be gone but nothings changed.

Interesting article I read the other day, too, about how the ALP were SMASHING Tony over the '12,000 job cuts' he had planned in the Govt sector.
Firstly, that was wrong - 12,000 were set to retire over the next 3- 5 years and wouldn't be replaced - that's it - Treasury have been peeling off the tape and rubbing out the liquidpaper the ALP put all through the books to hide their incompetence and have revealed that the ALP were in fact going to guillotine 15,000 if and when they got in - straight up GONE.

Dirty, filthy, lying grubs.
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bigcol
Team Manager



Australia
13314 Posts
joined 06 Feb 04

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Posted - 22 Nov 2013 :  14:24:03  Show Profile Send bigcol a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Still as na´ve as ever hey Rabs.

The country is full of dirty filthy lying grub politicians and they inhabit both sides of parliment but unlike yourself most people took the blinkers off years ago.

Let me remind you of a dirty filthy lying grub.
The public service have nothing to fear from an LNP government.
Newmans own words from before the 2012 state election and as soon as that dirty filthy lying grub was voted in he stalled the QLD economy by sacking 15000 people.
Or how about one closer to your heart, Children overboard.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

ONLY LITTLE BOYZ WEAR BOWTIES
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REM
Team Manager



Australia
14224 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

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Posted - 22 Nov 2013 :  18:52:19  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by willsy

I like how our side is not bending over like usual to them and actually taking a firm stance.

I feel we should be the strong country in the area, and not bow to others all the time whilst being worried about petty things and handing them out more money all the time.



Ummm....if only "Bungles" hadn't gone on about "Jakata not Genvea" and all that in the election before he became PM!...."petty things"...what like tapping their Presidents phone? Good thing you weren't around in the cold war Willsy~!...and I agree re the cash....the 'cash for boats' idea really should go down as the most stupid policy of all time....so well said!...oh and boys...given that we haven't see Aussie flags being publicly burned in Indo and Bali since 2001 and Howard's foreign policy .....I'd give that Xmas Bali trip a miss.......for a few years!

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.



Edited by - REM on 22 Nov 2013 18:57:50
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Legendary Gerry
Moderator



Australia
22226 Posts
joined 19 Feb 07

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Posted - 22 Nov 2013 :  19:59:36  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
It's election time in Indonesia so there's a few trying to show that they can flex their muscles - no different to here really.
Ho hum...
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27GV
Team Manager



5249 Posts
joined 20 Jul 08

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Posted - 22 Nov 2013 :  21:43:09  Show Profile Send 27GV a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by willsy

I like how our side is not bending over like usual to them and actually taking a firm stance.

I feel we should be the strong country in the area, and not bow to others all the time whilst being worried about petty things and handing them out more money all the time.



Are you for real? Aren't you always droning on about the economy? Well woo hoo, guess what is the 4th most populous consumer economy on earth and close to Australia?

How many billions do you think will go begging because Aussie companies are kicked out of business opportunities in the archipelago? Or do you consider that an acceptable loss so Tony can thump his chest and rub his budgy smugglers on some Indonesians?

Forget the carbon tax. We have the Tony Tax - things that cost the economy billions because Toooooooooony feels like doing them.



_Mford
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SuperMono
Formula Ford Driver


459 Posts
joined 02 Oct 08

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Posted - 22 Nov 2013 :  21:57:14  Show Profile Send SuperMono a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I have resisted ever posting to this thread previously and I never will again.

Personally I am completely over this political approach of: When in an opposition party, your job is 'to hold the government to account' and/or block legislation on party lines.
No it is not.
Your job is to represent the people of the electorate (lower house) or state (upper house) that voted you into a serious position of trust in society.

Politicians need to stop thinking they are part of some competition for power and influence and start doing what they were meant to be elected for.
If they don't, the level of community respect for politicians will continue to fall and the 'donkey vote' levels will continue to rise.

Final comment: It is our fault.


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Legendary Gerry
Moderator



Australia
22226 Posts
joined 19 Feb 07

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Posted - 22 Nov 2013 :  22:08:51  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by 27GV

quote:
Originally posted by willsy

I like how our side is not bending over like usual to them and actually taking a firm stance.

I feel we should be the strong country in the area, and not bow to others all the time whilst being worried about petty things and handing them out more money all the time.



Are you for real? Aren't you always droning on about the economy? Well woo hoo, guess what is the 4th most populous consumer economy on earth and close to Australia?

How many billions do you think will go begging because Aussie companies are kicked out of business opportunities in the archipelago? Or do you consider that an acceptable loss so Tony can thump his chest and rub his budgy smugglers on some Indonesians?

Forget the carbon tax. We have the Tony Tax - things that cost the economy billions because Toooooooooony feels like doing them.





So you choose to totally ignore the fact that this was done under the Labor government and you just choose to throw **** at Tony Abbott.

No wonder this country is going to the dogs.

Too much political selectiveness.
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REM
Team Manager



Australia
14224 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

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Posted - 23 Nov 2013 :  08:59:25  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

quote:
Originally posted by 27GV

quote:
Originally posted by willsy

I like how our side is not bending over like usual to them and actually taking a firm stance.

I feel we should be the strong country in the area, and not bow to others all the time whilst being worried about petty things and handing them out more money all the time.



Are you for real? Aren't you always droning on about the economy? Well woo hoo, guess what is the 4th most populous consumer economy on earth and close to Australia?

How many billions do you think will go begging because Aussie companies are kicked out of business opportunities in the archipelago? Or do you consider that an acceptable loss so Tony can thump his chest and rub his budgy smugglers on some Indonesians?

Forget the carbon tax. We have the Tony Tax - things that cost the economy billions because Toooooooooony feels like doing them.





So you choose to totally ignore the fact that this was done under the Labor government and you just choose to throw **** at Tony Abbott.

No wonder this country is going to the dogs.

Too much political selectiveness.



The reality is, that the Govt, was probably doing the right thing back in 2009...given what was going on then....what has been majorly 'bungled'...was the response now! The correct thing to have done....was to follow convention....like the yanks with the German situation....was to say "yep mea culpa...sorry...it won't happen again"......not try and be Clint Eastwood....with a nation that is front and centre of you foreign policy....a real George W. 'bungles' moment from Tony....sure that there will be more.....he's just so damn clumsy and full of naive' bullish bravado!

This seems to sum it uhttp://www.smh.com.au/national/neighbourhood-watch-how-indonesia-and-australia-faced-off-over-spying-claims-20131122-2y1f8.htmlp :

Seems Tony is good at "wrecking-everything" as PM too....it really is his core skill set!

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.



Edited by - REM on 23 Nov 2013 09:09:51
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Legendary Gerry
Moderator



Australia
22226 Posts
joined 19 Feb 07

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Posted - 23 Nov 2013 :  09:28:56  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Of course they were doing the right thing back in 2009!
How ****ing stupid of me not to have realised that!
Tell me, what was the "doing the right thing" reason behind bugging the PM's wife's phone again?
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REM
Team Manager



Australia
14224 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

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Posted - 23 Nov 2013 :  09:32:30  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

Of course they were doing the right thing back in 2009!
How ****ing stupid of me not to have realised that!
Tell me, what was the "doing the right thing" reason behind bugging the PM's wife's phone again?



ASIO intel re terrorism......nobody here in Aus has disputed this(either party)....regardless...the issue is to repair the relationship...not stupidly wack a beehive with great big stick!

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.


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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
9778 Posts
joined 24 Dec 04

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Posted - 23 Nov 2013 :  10:21:10  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Then promising to never bug the President's phone again may not be the best way to handle this "moving forward" - as some might say.

I don't know what the ideal response may be, but just apologising, promising to never do it again, and therefore behaving obsequiously to Indonesia might appease them now, but doesn't sound like the best response for the long term.

BTW, those protesters burning the Australian flag form such a tiny part of the reaction by Indonesian people, they're not part of anyone's consideration.
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AlbertM
Crackpot



12530 Posts
joined 15 Jan 03

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Posted - 23 Nov 2013 :  12:18:56  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

quote:
Originally posted by 27GV

quote:
Originally posted by willsy

I like how our side is not bending over like usual to them and actually taking a firm stance.

I feel we should be the strong country in the area, and not bow to others all the time whilst being worried about petty things and handing them out more money all the time.



Are you for real? Aren't you always droning on about the economy? Well woo hoo, guess what is the 4th most populous consumer economy on earth and close to Australia?

How many billions do you think will go begging because Aussie companies are kicked out of business opportunities in the archipelago? Or do you consider that an acceptable loss so Tony can thump his chest and rub his budgy smugglers on some Indonesians?

Forget the carbon tax. We have the Tony Tax - things that cost the economy billions because Toooooooooony feels like doing them.





So you choose to totally ignore the fact that this was done under the Labor government and you just choose to throw **** at Tony Abbott.

No wonder this country is going to the dogs.

Too much political selectiveness.



That's rich!

If I may borrow one of your previous arguments..."Liberals Labor are not in government".

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford
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willsy
V8 Taxi Driver



Australia
3165 Posts
joined 21 Nov 07

 offline

Posted - 23 Nov 2013 :  12:57:34  Show Profile  Visit willsy's Homepage Send willsy a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by 27GV

quote:
Originally posted by willsy

I like how our side is not bending over like usual to them and actually taking a firm stance.

I feel we should be the strong country in the area, and not bow to others all the time whilst being worried about petty things and handing them out more money all the time.



Are you for real? Aren't you always droning on about the economy? Well woo hoo, guess what is the 4th most populous consumer economy on earth and close to Australia?

How many billions do you think will go begging because Aussie companies are kicked out of business opportunities in the archipelago? Or do you consider that an acceptable loss so Tony can thump his chest and rub his budgy smugglers on some Indonesians?

Forget the carbon tax. We have the Tony Tax - things that cost the economy billions because Toooooooooony feels like doing them.





Yeah I am for real. We hand out more money to Indonesia than to anyone else, and in return we ask for things like their help in killing off the people smuggling trade, and it barely raises a blip on their radar of thinking. It means a lot to us for some reason, and because they don't care about it they do stuff all to help. We keep forking over billions to them but still have to go to them with cap in hand when it should be the other way around.

I don't like how we keep sending our money off shore. As an example we have places like Spain halfway around the world supplying our 'own' homebrand ice cream in our large supermarket chains, as they are government subsidised and make it and ship it here cheaper than we can in our own backyard. We have gone from 35 large Australian owned farms here in SA to only 7. Other Countries have been buying them up and we get no return at all on them once they are sold and our industry is left wilting.

We are cutting our nose off, and food is going to be where we need to head with the world facing large shortages. We seem intent supporting other countries and their industries to help some of us out, whilst over our shoulder our country is having some huge issues which is going to stuff our future.

I don't like to see us forever being on the wrong side of Free Trade Agreements, with us always losing out by not ruling a hard line whilst the ones on the other end dictate terms and we constantly lose out by being soft.

Lets spend more money on ourselves, prop up our own industries, buy more Australian and not overseas, trust in our own expertise to win overseas customers, and lower our build/farming costs by lowering rates etc Our focus to me seems to have shifted far too much in having to have agreements in place overseas, and we have things like the worlds highest electricity prices driving our own businesses into the ground.

If Indonesia gave back as much as they received from us, I would be fine with it, but at the moment we seem to be heading along a one way street from where I see it.


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