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willsy
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Australia
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Posted - 03 Apr 2014 :  17:06:04  Show Profile  Visit willsy's Homepage Send willsy a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
So they are doing the same as what Labor were doing previously and creating more debt. Labor die hards cant really complain about them doing the same thing as I see it.

In a couple of years it will be interesting to see if the Libs can get it under control, or continue to spiral out of control like Labor did.


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Zac
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Australia
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Posted - 03 Apr 2014 :  17:22:29  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by 27GV

http://thekouk.com/blog/it-s-now-61-15-billion-of-gross-borrowing-by-the-abbott-government.html#.UzzAuKgYs0h
You're quoting Stephen Koukoulas? Former economics adviser to Julia Gillard (there's a record to be proud of), and prior to that years in Treasury, becoming renowned for his incorrect economic forecasts. There was a rhyme about Koukoulas that had a bit that went: "long on abuse, short on evidence".

Would you like me to start using Andrew Bolt or Gerard Henderson to quote back to you? I'm sure they have as much credibility with you as Koukoulas has to me. FWIW: No, I don't take much notice of Bolt or Henderson.

Edited by - Zac on 03 Apr 2014 17:39:31
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27GV
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Posted - 04 Apr 2014 :  01:21:57  Show Profile Send 27GV a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by willsy

So they are doing the same as what Labor were doing previously and creating more debt. Labor die hards cant really complain about them doing the same thing as I see it.

In a couple of years it will be interesting to see if the Libs can get it under control, or continue to spiral out of control like Labor did.



You forgot the part where Labor delivered high growth and low unemployment for 6 years. Remains to be seen whether there's a good side now the Libs are offering the same bad side.


_Mford
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bigcol
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Posted - 04 Apr 2014 :  08:05:17  Show Profile Send bigcol a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
No one's condoning the way Labor spent money but geez some on here lectured us long and loud about it.
Now their favoured team is spending money like a drunken sailor.

The government has a major revenue problem. It's been coming since the Howard the days and Rudd Gillard Rudd took the easy way as well and did nothing.

Can Hockeynomics fix it.
I doubt it. This lot have to many favours to big business to pay back so, once again rather than fixing the core problem the man in the street will be expected to pick up the tab once again.
Once they start the asset sell off it will become worse because of decreasing revenues.


Abbott will be a one term wonder the way he is going.
Newman is all the proof you need that the public are sick of the spin and lies and want some real action.
I was actually part of this Reachtel poll. There was no loaded question. It just asked your voting intentions

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/lnp-would-lose-an-election-held-this-week-survey-20140403-361s2.html

ONLY LITTLE BOYZ WEAR BOWTIES
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willsy
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Posted - 05 Apr 2014 :  11:04:19  Show Profile  Visit willsy's Homepage Send willsy a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
The Federal Government is simply Cannon Fodder early on its term when the previous government left them a mess to deal with.

Easy to take pot shots now while they need to deal with sorting out the problems, but really only time will tell if the choices they make will be correct and then thats when the polls will count.

Have your fun for now guys, but like with Labor I sit and wait to see how they go over time. With them they failed to deliver over time, just kept spending with out dealing with the big picture. Easy to like someone who keeps giving you more in your wallet, but then not notice all your costs around you ballooning even further. At least now my rates have come down, my last power bill was the lowest its been in a few years for example, and hopefully trends like this continue.


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Zac
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Australia
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Posted - 05 Apr 2014 :  12:50:54  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Part of the government debt that has increased since September 2013 is accumulated interest. The previous government had around $50 billion in interest added to what it already managed to borrow. That hasn't gone away and still has to be paid. Not that anything a government committed to reducing debt will be seen as positive by the naysayers. If the government cuts spending anywhere, we'll get posts here moaning about the cuts. If spending is increased anywhere, we'll see posts moaning about the waste. If the government increases taxes, or adds any new ones, we'll get moans about them as well. That's a good one after the previous government increased taxes and added more new ones more than any government in my lifetime. If government debt doesn't start reducing immediately, we're told that the government is incompetent. Just the usual negativity, which is pretty funny, because that was their chant about this government when it was in opposition.

Edited by - Zac on 05 Apr 2014 12:55:54
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AlbertM
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Posted - 06 Apr 2014 :  14:10:47  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Very comical.

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford
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27GV
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Posted - 06 Apr 2014 :  16:16:39  Show Profile Send 27GV a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-06/wa-senate-election-result-coalition-hopeful-friendly-upper-housw/5370502

quote:
The Greens have also secured one seat, returning Scott Ludlam to the Senate, with a swing towards the party of more than 6 per cent.

Their gains have come at the expense of the major parties which have both suffered swings against them of around 5 per cent.


People already sick of the Libs?

quote:
Originally posted by Zac

That's a good one after the previous government increased taxes and added more new ones more than any government in my lifetime.



Since you think I've got problems with the written word here's a pic to show you're lying... as per usual.

http://www.treasury.gov.au/Policy-Topics/Taxation/Pocket-Guide-to-the-Australian-Tax-System/Pocket-Guide-to-the-Australian-Tax-System/Part-1



Look at that big dip around 2007 when Rudd got in. Maybe Zaccy needs new glasses.


_Mford

Edited by - 27GV on 06 Apr 2014 16:22:35
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AlbertM
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Posted - 06 Apr 2014 :  21:11:23  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Steady on 27, Zac is not lying. Labor did introduce many taxes and levies. The biggest one was the Carbon price, a tax so big its little impact couldn't be accurately measured and will make little to no difference when removed. Then there is the mining tax. Labeled a useless tax because it hasn't raised the projected revenue. All up Labors new taxes added around 2% to the cost of living. Far cry from the 4.5% from the single biggest tax pressed upon Australians.

Never fear, the Liberal are here to reduce taxes. By increasing business tax for the benefit of a small minority, considering raising the GST, undoing the Carbon tax offsets, double dipping low income super...

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford
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Zac
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Australia
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Posted - 06 Apr 2014 :  21:55:00  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by 27GV
Look at that big dip around 2007 when Rudd got in.

What I said about more new taxes and increased taxes is correct. Somewhere further back in this thread when it was relevant, I listed most of the new Labor taxes, the taxes that had been increased and the ceilings put on previous allowances and benefits, all done to increase tax receipts. Some worked, some didn't, but tax revenue increased. You can go back and look for it if you want. I'm not doing it all again.

The graph you linked shows tax revenue as a percentage of GDP. The tax revenue increased during Labor's time in government (despite the GFC that Labor supporters kept using as some kind of defence) from $262 billion in 2006-07 to $376 billion in 2012-13. By the way, showing tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is fine, except in Australia's case it is skewed by the massive revenue from mining exports, not because of anything particularly clever done by the government - and yes, before anyone jumps in, that applies to the previous Coalition government as well as the Labor government from 2007 to 2013.

2007-08 $285 billion
2008-09 $278 billion
2009-10 $267 billion
2010-11 $289 billion
2011-12 $317 billion
2012-13 $376 billion (Labor's projected figure, no more recent figure being available)

There was a dip in there as a result of the after effects of the GFC. This was due to a lag in the recovery of company income tax receipts because losses accumulated during the GFC were then claimed against later profits (Labor's own words:
http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/glossy/tax_reform/html/tax_overview_02.htm)
http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/overview/html/overview_42.htm
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/5506.0Main%20Features22011-12?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=5506.0&issue=2011-12&num=&view=

During Labor's time in government, the number of taxes increased and the rates of taxation increased (overall - I'm sure there are examples of some minor tax cuts), and despite the GFC, total tax revenue increased.


Edited by - Zac on 06 Apr 2014 22:06:13
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bigcol
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Australia
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Posted - 06 Apr 2014 :  22:08:18  Show Profile Send bigcol a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by willsy

The Federal Government is simply Cannon Fodder early on its term when the previous government left them a mess to deal with.

Most new governments get a honeymoon period where the polls usually favour them even more. Problem being is Australia have worked it out that Abbott and co had nothing but slogans

quote:
Easy to take pot shots now while they need to deal with sorting out the problems, but really only time will tell if the choices they make will be correct and then thats when the polls will count.

What do you mean like Abbott did for 6 years with cheap BS slogans.
Problem being is that they aren't sorting out any problems. They are making them worse.
Please tell me how they expect to raise nearly half a billion in revenue every year once Medibank is sold off.
Within 10 years the profits will be more than what they get for it. That's not even including an increase in profits as the years pass.
Then we have Direct Action. Paying dirty businesses to make pollution. He's a ****ing genius that Tony.
Adding to the debt by giving the reserve bank 9 billion of borrowed money that they didn't ask for and we are paying interest on.
But wait there's more, in his welfare for rich women having babies in his ridiculous and expensive maternity leave.
I haven't even started on his relations with other countries the human rights issues with the boat people and every other thing his passion fingers government have made a mess of.

quote:
At least now my rates have come down, my last power bill was the lowest its been in a few years for example, and hopefully trends like this continue.


Oh Simon, please tell us more about your power bill and rates.
I'm very interested in knowing how your power bill and rates have reduced seeing neither have anything to do with the federal government.
Can't be the Carbon tax because that's still in place

ONLY LITTLE BOYZ WEAR BOWTIES
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AlbertM
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Posted - 06 Apr 2014 :  22:31:09  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Zac


What I said about more new taxes and increased taxes is correct. Somewhere further back in this thread when it was relevant, I listed most of the new Labor taxes, the taxes that had been increased and the ceilings put on previous allowances and benefits, all done to increase tax receipts. Some worked, some didn't, but tax revenue increased. You can go back and look for it if you want. I'm not doing it all again.

The graph you linked shows tax revenue as a percentage of GDP. The tax revenue increased during Labor's time in government (despite the GFC that Labor supporters kept using as some kind of defence) from $262 billion in 2006-07 to $376 billion in 2012-13. By the way, showing tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is fine, except in Australia's case it is skewed by the massive revenue from mining exports, not because of anything particularly clever done by the government - and yes, before anyone jumps in, that applies to the previous Coalition government as well as the Labor government from 2007 to 2013.

2007-08 $285 billion
2008-09 $278 billion
2009-10 $267 billion
2010-11 $289 billion
2011-12 $317 billion
2012-13 $376 billion (Labor's projected figure, no more recent figure being available)

There was a dip in there as a result of the after effects of the GFC. This was due to a lag in the recovery of company income tax receipts because losses accumulated during the GFC were then claimed against later profits (Labor's own words:
http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/glossy/tax_reform/html/tax_overview_02.htm)
http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/overview/html/overview_42.htm
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/5506.0Main%20Features22011-12?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=5506.0&issue=2011-12&num=&view=

During Labor's time in government, the number of taxes increased and the rates of taxation increased (overall - I'm sure there are examples of some minor tax cuts), and despite the GFC, total tax revenue increased.





Sounds convincing when taken in isolation. Things also cost more over the years, negating the revenue increase.

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford

Edited by - AlbertM on 06 Apr 2014 22:32:58
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
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Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  00:24:53  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
That sounds convincing when taken in isolation. Actually, when things cost more over the years, it increases the tax revenue.
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willsy
V8 Taxi Driver



Australia
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Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  01:20:31  Show Profile  Visit willsy's Homepage Send willsy a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bigcol

Most new governments get a honeymoon period where the polls usually favour them even more. Problem being is Australia have worked it out that Abbott and co had nothing but slogans



I would agree if they had actually been handed something that resembled a stable platform, not actually plummeting out of control. To turn things around you will need to probably upset a few people to get things back under control. Once it levels out then all would be better and the polls could reflect that, and its hardly like this is the moment they need to worry about the polls.


quote:
What do you mean like Abbott did for 6 years with cheap BS slogans.


Thats what being in opposition is about isn't it :)

quote:
Problem being is that they aren't sorting out any problems. They are making them worse.


6 months without even producing their own budget cant be time to prove if they have proved their worth for the term yet?

quote:
Please tell me how they expect to raise nearly half a billion in revenue every year once Medibank is sold off.
Within 10 years the profits will be more than what they get for it. That's not even including an increase in profits as the years pass.


They cant keep it anyway as far as I'm aware, the Government cannot hold a business thats in competition with other companies. Its time for it to move on, the government shouldn't be about running companies anyway.

quote:
Then we have Direct Action. Paying dirty businesses to make pollution. He's a ****ing genius that Tony.


I don't know much about that one?

quote:
Adding to the debt by giving the reserve bank 9 billion of borrowed money that they didn't ask for and we are paying interest on.


Suppose time will tell if it was a dumb move.

quote:
But wait there's more, in his welfare for rich women having babies in his ridiculous and expensive maternity leave.


I like the maternity leave part of this myself.

quote:
I haven't even started on his relations with other countries the human rights issues with the boat people and every other thing his passion fingers government have made a mess of.


I really like how he actually stood firm rather than bending over like the earlier mob and taking it. We deserve more respect in this country, and need to stop pandering to idiots that use diplomacy matters to throw out disrespectful threats.

quote:
Oh Simon, please tell us more about your power bill and rates.
I'm very interested in knowing how your power bill and rates have reduced seeing neither have anything to do with the federal government.
Can't be the Carbon tax because that's still in place



I dont know how, but its less and the Lib's are in power now Surely 6 months they couldn't of made a difference? Well there seems to be a strong school of thought in hear that they have when it suits the argument...


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Trev
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Australia
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Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  06:22:45  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bigcol


This lot have to many favours to big business to pay back so, once again rather than fixing the core problem the man in the street will be expected to pick up the tab once again.
add to this the now infamous paid maternity leave, this is going to get good - LOL

I reserve the right to arm bears
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