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Legendary Gerry
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Australia
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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  13:11:58  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Who said anything about punishing myself and doing things the hard way?
I try to do things the right way.
You're really clambering here.
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Trev
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Australia
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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  14:59:02  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Sorry guys, but you are misreading LG here, he and I are different planets in regards to politics, but I have to support him

I reserve the right to arm bears
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Legendary Gerry
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Australia
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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  15:46:18  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Aw shucks!
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
9778 Posts
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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  16:23:31  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trev

And that is also why I am dirty with this ****en idiot Government ****ing us over, when we where the ones that lived within our means and now the ****s want to punish us because of their poor management and over-generosity pandering to you youngun's
Trev, I don't know if you're dirty with this government, the previous government, or other governments before them.

I think you were born sometime around 1956-'57. You are slightly affected by the rise in the retirement age. By either 18 months or two years, depending on your birth date. That change was instigated by the previous Labor government - not that it matters, because whatever government was in power had to start somewhere. It doesn't really have all that much to do with poor management or over-generosity to the younger generation, but more to do with all of us baby-boomers heading into retirement with a smaller percentage of the population in the workforce to support those pension payments.

Is it really that big a deal to you, though? Are you that eager to become a pensioner? I wouldn't have thought so. I'm certainly not. I turned 65 a few months ago, and I have absolutely no intention of retiring any time in the forseeable future. Besides, I could see these changes to the retirement age coming from around twenty-five years ago when Paul Keating started telling us what would need to happen. It wasn't even a startling revelation then.

When it comes to poor management and over-generosity: You have a point. That's what Abbott and Hockey are on about now. The Federal Government built up this debt over the previous seven years, and this government has decided that we need to start repaying sooner rather than later. The previous government spent seven years over-spending while they and assorted economic experts continually told us how small the debt was compared to other countries, that we still had a AAA credit rating, our ability to repay is excellent, and so on. Well, the debt has grown and grown, and while our ability to repay may well be excellent, no effort has been made to start repaying until now. Assorted economic experts (Probably not the same ones - but possibly some of them. They tend to swing with the breeze.) have repeatedly said that we have rarely had a better chance to start repaying debt than the past few years.

So, here we are. This government has decided to reduce spending and start knocking down debt. Not popular with the majority from what I can see. They're not doing a good job of selling their plan, and it's not much of a plan anyway. Introducing a new tax - sorry, LEVY, after telling us "no new taxes" won't endear them to us at all. Plus, anyone anywhere looking at any cut to their benefit won't be happy.

I don't think either the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government or the Abbott government have the ability to run our country. The R/G/R was big on ideals but hopeless on the management, and the Abbott government has no ideals that I can see, and it's only management so far seems to be: " We know best. Take this medicine. It's really yucky but it's good for you." We haven't even got to their first budget yet. I don't know how anyone can enthusiastically support either of them. Keating, Hawke, Howard etc are looking more like great leaders of great governments the more they recede into the past.

By all means be "dirty with this ****en idiot government ****ing us over', but don't put the blame on them for raising the retirement age, or for making a start on Australia living within its means (just like you and I have done for decades.)
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Trev
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Australia
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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  17:25:09  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I know Rudd introduced the 67 thing and yes it does affect me, but I never posted so on here, why, not sure really, but I was equally pissed off about it

My issue with it all has been stated many many times on here, but here it is again

we (the baby boomers) have been the biggest single contributor to this country being so affluent until the GFC (yes Liberal supporters the GFC really did happened, despite the current Government NEVER EVER acknowledging it happened or its impact on us) As the single biggest contributor, we have rarely ever been unemployed, we started work at 15 or 16 with limited education (in the most), we paid our taxes religiously to make this country prosperous, now when we want to collect on the hard work we are told we can't - WTF!!! I paid my taxes that so I could support those before me, now apparently the younger generation don't want to support us - WTF!!!!

I won't be too bad off when and if I decide to retire, (personally I don't think I will ever fully retire, just go into part time work). My Super isn't that great, I have been contributing about $250 per fortnight for some time, but time will tell.

But I still want to know, WHERE HAS ALL OUR TAX DOLLARS GONE? PREVIOUS GOVERNMENTS HAVE BLOWN IT, not just Labor but Liberals as well, Howard was very generous around election time

I reserve the right to arm bears

Edited by - Trev on 05 May 2014 17:28:10
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Legendary Gerry
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Australia
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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  18:02:30  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Trev, for the younger generation to support us, (as we did our earlier generations) first they'd have to get a job.
Now getting a job might sound simplistic but they have some very tough decisions to make if they choose to go down that road.
Firstly, they won't have time to twit/facebook/X-Box/Playstation/download/lie around all day.
Secondly, they'll actually have to get up at the same time as the rest of us rather than sometime in the afternoon if they feel like it.
Thirdly, they'll actually have to get home from the nightclub/party at a reasonable hour just so they can get up in the morning.
They won't be able to stay till dawn.
They'll actually have to make decisions like, "How will I get to work?"
What if they just don't feel like going to work?

I thought you'd understand these trials and tribulations they have.
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
9778 Posts
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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  18:11:07  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
When Howard left though Trev, he left the government with a surplus, not a few hundred billion of debt - but like the GFC, that's all been gone through on here many, many times before.

You mentioned about baby-boomers rarely being unemployed. Good point. I don't know how much credit we can take for Australia being so affluent. That IMO has more to do with what we've dug out of the ground. However, we have a strong work ethic which came mainly from our parents, a lot of them having been children of the Depression. I came across a good example today. One of my clients (printing business) went into administration about a fortnight ago. (Left me in the lurch for around $8,500 - but that's neither here nor there.) It was only a small business employing seven or eight staff, all in their 50s and I was friendly with the guys who worked there. I rang the manager (ex-manager) today to see how he and the others were getting on. There's no available work for printers in the Hawkesbury region, but they've all found employment in the past week or so. Not in the printing industry, although the manager is starting up his own digital printing business while working somewhere else in the meantime. It makes you wonder why the unemployment rate is way above average around here. These 50-60 year olds lost their jobs with no notice and found alternative employment in no time, while others remain unemployed for years .

Edited by - Zac on 05 May 2014 18:16:29
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27GV
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5249 Posts
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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  19:04:18  Show Profile Send 27GV a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

Trev, for the younger generation to support us, (as we did our earlier generations) first they'd have to get a job.
Now getting a job might sound simplistic but they have some very tough decisions to make if they choose to go down that road.
Firstly, they won't have time to twit/facebook/X-Box/Playstation/download/lie around all day.
Secondly, they'll actually have to get up at the same time as the rest of us rather than sometime in the afternoon if they feel like it.
Thirdly, they'll actually have to get home from the nightclub/party at a reasonable hour just so they can get up in the morning.
They won't be able to stay till dawn.
They'll actually have to make decisions like, "How will I get to work?"
What if they just don't feel like going to work?

I thought you'd understand these trials and tribulations they have.



Are you having a ****ing joke? Have you been outside in a decade?

When you were young China and India were full of peasants. Now every manufacturing job or services job that can be outsourced has been outsourced.

Australia used to be a little pond on its own, now it's part of the rest of the world. See the car market, that was trucking along with a million tariffs back when you were working - now it's dead. Good for baby boomers with your share portfolios but worthwhile jobs for youth are ****ing rare because they moved to Thailand or some hole.

I have a serious scientific degree and I can either move overseas for a real job or stay in my Australia in a part time retail job, because Abbott's 457/working visa changes mean the last real job I applied for went to a foreigner. A good 2/3 of my course were foreign students who learned in Australia and then took Aussie jobs. But if I want to work in Indonesia I have to pay $2000 a year in fees just to be allowed to work.

So yeah, the youth working 20 hours a week pouring your coffee probably has the degree to get a real job, but the companies would rather give them to the Chinese or Indians. Then you moan about lazy youth and a skills shortage.

Not to mention rent. Chinese are buying up all the property so no youth can afford it even with a job. If I went to China to buy Chinese land I'd be laughed out of the country.

I see why you vote LNP, you live in lala land. Baby boomers lived the golden age when youth weren't expected to work for 3rd world wages to bring the jobs back to Australia.



_Mford
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
9778 Posts
joined 24 Dec 04

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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  19:16:18  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
That's your take on it. I have three children probably somewhere around your age or a bit older: 29, 31 and 33. All have tertiary qualifications and have fulfilling, full-time employment in their chosen fields. Same goes for their friends. My eldest son has his full-time career and chooses to do extra freelance work as well. My daughter has a demanding managerial job and works a second job while saving to buy an investment property. My youngest son only has the one job but works many extra hours in it.

I know it's not easy for young people, but maybe you should think a little more positively and stop blaming whoever is in government, foreign students, Thailand, the Chinese and anyone but yourself.

PS: My first full-time job as an apprentice paid me $9.95 per week (actually 4 pounds, 19 shillings and 6 pence) after tax. Out of that I paid $3 board to my parents and $3 in fares. That left $3.95 to live on and to save. My second year didn't pay all that much more. I also worked a second job a few nights a week. And guess what? Hard-working migrants were taking jobs from Aussies all over the place back then too.

Edited by - Zac on 05 May 2014 19:38:23
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Iggle Piggle
Formula Ford Driver



Australia
360 Posts
joined 16 Dec 11

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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  19:37:11  Show Profile Send Iggle Piggle a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Trev and LG - don't you think you might be making some sweeping generalisations about different generations?

Not all Gen Ys or iGens are useless partying layabouts with no motivation, and not all baby boomers slaved in full time employment their whole lives (not sure all those hippies in the 60's and early 70's fit your description of hard-working tax-paying baby boomers during that period, nor the surf crews).

Those examples may not be the majority of their generation - not sure your assessment of the younguns is the majority of their gen

_Maluminium-bonnet

Edited by - Iggle Piggle on 05 May 2014 19:38:11
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falcon_cobra
Kiss Fanatic



Sweden
8813 Posts
joined 02 Dec 04

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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  20:19:23  Show Profile  Click to see falcon_cobra's MSN Messenger address Send falcon_cobra a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
with the work shortage, is there a work shortage, or is the people looking for work, not willing to do any work that comes up?

where I live we have to import islander workers to do the work, because Australians don't want to do it.

_Mvolvo
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REM
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Australia
14224 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  20:28:10  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Zac

quote:
Originally posted by Trev

And that is also why I am dirty with this ****en idiot Government ****ing us over, when we where the ones that lived within our means and now the ****s want to punish us because of their poor management and over-generosity pandering to you youngun's
Trev, I don't know if you're dirty with this government, the previous government, or other governments before them.

I think you were born sometime around 1956-'57. You are slightly affected by the rise in the retirement age. By either 18 months or two years, depending on your birth date. That change was instigated by the previous Labor government - not that it matters, because whatever government was in power had to start somewhere. It doesn't really have all that much to do with poor management or over-generosity to the younger generation, but more to do with all of us baby-boomers heading into retirement with a smaller percentage of the population in the workforce to support those pension payments.

Is it really that big a deal to you, though? Are you that eager to become a pensioner? I wouldn't have thought so. I'm certainly not. I turned 65 a few months ago, and I have absolutely no intention of retiring any time in the forseeable future. Besides, I could see these changes to the retirement age coming from around twenty-five years ago when Paul Keating started telling us what would need to happen. It wasn't even a startling revelation then.

When it comes to poor management and over-generosity: You have a point. That's what Abbott and Hockey are on about now. The Federal Government built up this debt over the previous seven years, and this government has decided that we need to start repaying sooner rather than later. The previous government spent seven years over-spending while they and assorted economic experts continually told us how small the debt was compared to other countries, that we still had a AAA credit rating, our ability to repay is excellent, and so on. Well, the debt has grown and grown, and while our ability to repay may well be excellent, no effort has been made to start repaying until now. Assorted economic experts (Probably not the same ones - but possibly some of them. They tend to swing with the breeze.) have repeatedly said that we have rarely had a better chance to start repaying debt than the past few years.

So, here we are. This government has decided to reduce spending and start knocking down debt. Not popular with the majority from what I can see. They're not doing a good job of selling their plan, and it's not much of a plan anyway. Introducing a new tax - sorry, LEVY, after telling us "no new taxes" won't endear them to us at all. Plus, anyone anywhere looking at any cut to their benefit won't be happy.

I don't think either the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government or the Abbott government have the ability to run our country. The R/G/R was big on ideals but hopeless on the management, and the Abbott government has no ideals that I can see, and it's only management so far seems to be: " We know best. Take this medicine. It's really yucky but it's good for you." We haven't even got to their first budget yet. I don't know how anyone can enthusiastically support either of them. Keating, Hawke, Howard etc are looking more like great leaders of great governments the more they recede into the past.

By all means be "dirty with this ****en idiot government ****ing us over', but don't put the blame on them for raising the retirement age, or for making a start on Australia living within its means (just like you and I have done for decades.)



Many economists are suggesting that it was the consecutive tax cuts by Howard(then Rudd) that brought on the situation of "debt crisis" Zac.....I well know you know this....your failing to mention it is curious....he also oversaw the apportioning of middle-class welfare, more so than any other former PM..."spending like a drunken sailor" was the term Costello used I believe....

I would also hope for some comment about the inequity of the CoA audit and recommendations....most vulnerable take a huge slug....while big business gets off virtually scott free....very vested interest I would expect....


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/01/in-abbotts-team-australia-the-weakest-players-must-do-the-heaviest-lifting


That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.



Edited by - REM on 05 May 2014 20:32:14
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Legendary Gerry
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Australia
22226 Posts
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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  21:07:00  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Iggle Piggle

Trev and LG - don't you think you might be making some sweeping generalisations about different generations?

Not all Gen Ys or iGens are useless partying layabouts with no motivation, and not all baby boomers slaved in full time employment their whole lives (not sure all those hippies in the 60's and early 70's fit your description of hard-working tax-paying baby boomers during that period, nor the surf crews).

Those examples may not be the majority of their generation - not sure your assessment of the younguns is the majority of their gen



My last post was just taking the piss, Iggle.
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
9778 Posts
joined 24 Dec 04

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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  21:58:58  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by REM

Many economists are suggesting that it was the consecutive tax cuts by Howard(then Rudd) that brought on the situation of "debt crisis" Zac.....I well know you know this....your failing to mention it is curious....he also oversaw the apportioning of middle-class welfare, more so than any other former PM..."spending like a drunken sailor" was the term Costello used I believe....

I would also hope for some comment about the inequity of the CoA audit and recommendations....most vulnerable take a huge slug....while big business gets off virtually scott free....very vested interest I would expect....

I'm being manoeuvred into being the token defender of things conservative again. Fair enough. We need at least one around here to keep things ticking along.

I don't know that reliving the Howard years will do much. We can blame previous governments for a little while, but can we really blame Howard in 2007 for the seven years since? If Howard was "spending like a drunken sailor", at least he was doing it with money the government had to spend. It was before an election, after all. Nothing particularly conservative or unusual about that, but if the spending wasn't sustainable, it should have been cut (as is starting to happen now). Rudd became PM, but when it came to unpopular decisions, like finding ways to afford "spending like a drunken sailor", Rudd wasn't to be found.

Was/is it a "debt crisis"? "Debt crisis", "budget emergency" - neither of them sound right to me, but sooner or later we have to stop spending more than we earn. I'll go with "fiscally responsible" or "fiscally conservative". I seem to associate those phrases with Rudd and Swan for some strange reason. Possibly Gillard, but less so. I can still hear her "Budget back in surplus, on time, as promised". So long ago... and you want to talk about Little Johnny...

The Commission of Audit: The government appoints a commission to provide the recommendations it wants to hear. It can then tell everyone that it won't be initiating too many of its recommendations. If this government seriously tries to implement more than just a small number of those recommendations, I'll be extremely surprised. I've seen it before. Get someone else to drop the bad stuff on us, and when you don't take up too many of their recommendations, you look OK. You can then start on a few less nasty things. Do I like or agree with them? Nope. I can't find many who do. It's a bit like the ministers in 'Yes, Prime Minister'. They all agree that cuts must be made - just not to their departments. I liked the "many economists" reference. You can get those many economists to provide whatever response you want. You just have to find the ones with your required responses - provided they don't start changing their tune when you get them on the 730 Report.

Now, what would REM do? You can keep all the welfare payments we currently have, increasing them wherever you see the need. You can keep the public service as it is, increasing it wherever you see the need. You can reduce defence spending as much as you want (although that won't go too far towards welfare payments). You can rip into big business as much as you like. You have to get those rips through the Senate, and you have to remember that around 50% of the population won't be with you. You can woo the trendies with as many arts grants as you want, grow the ABC, increase foreign aid, be as humane as humanely possible with anyone who arrives here without a passport, with all the costs that come with that, etc. You can also do the "Big Picture" things, like the NBN. Remember that the NBN costs haven't figured anywhere in budget figures or our government debt as yet.

You can look towards the next election and do "whatever it takes" to remain in power - but somewhere along the line you have to keep on top of the interest on that debt, and start repaying a few hundred billion dollars as well. Just stopping the debt increasing will be your first challenge. Well, you don't HAVE to start repaying the debt, or even stop it increasing - but there are serious consequences if you don't, as many countries that kept increasing their debt can attest.

How am I doing?

Your turn...

Edited by - Zac on 05 May 2014 22:18:42
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Trev
Team Manager



Australia
5741 Posts
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Posted - 05 May 2014 :  23:06:58  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by 27GV


Are you having a ****ing joke? Have you been outside in a decade?

When you were young China and India were full of peasants. Now every manufacturing job or services job that can be outsourced has been outsourced.

Australia used to be a little pond on its own, now it's part of the rest of the world. See the car market, that was trucking along with a million tariffs back when you were working - now it's dead. Good for baby boomers with your share portfolios but worthwhile jobs for youth are ****ing rare because they moved to Thailand or some hole.

I have a serious scientific degree and I can either move overseas for a real job or stay in my Australia in a part time retail job, because Abbott's 457/working visa changes mean the last real job I applied for went to a foreigner. A good 2/3 of my course were foreign students who learned in Australia and then took Aussie jobs. But if I want to work in Indonesia I have to pay $2000 a year in fees just to be allowed to work.

So yeah, the youth working 20 hours a week pouring your coffee probably has the degree to get a real job, but the companies would rather give them to the Chinese or Indians. Then you moan about lazy youth and a skills shortage.

Not to mention rent. Chinese are buying up all the property so no youth can afford it even with a job. If I went to China to buy Chinese land I'd be laughed out of the country.

I see why you vote LNP, you live in lala land. Baby boomers lived the golden age when youth weren't expected to work for 3rd world wages to bring the jobs back to Australia.



see, therein lies some of the problem, we bought Australian, we still buy Australian, why cos we give a **** about you and the rest of young Australians, when I buy I don't go through the self serve isle, I line up, why? To keep the young person in a job, how much **** do you buy from overseas on eBay? Me? Nothing that can be sourced here!!! What I have I bought from overseas online 4 hubcap for my 1966 Falcon coz I couldn't get them here

I reserve the right to arm bears
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