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27GV
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5249 Posts
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Posted - 07 Apr 2015 :  17:03:14  Show Profile Send 27GV a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bundy5

Not worried - people will soon wake up to themselves and realise that the alternative is much worse and Bill's got no policies.



Yeah, you laughed at us when we said that about Gillard and Abbott... I think you'll find the people have woken up already, hence the polls...


_Mford
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bigem
A polar bear



Australia
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Posted - 08 Apr 2015 :  10:49:20  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Tony 'the recessionary leader' Abbotts lot really do not have a clue, their 'responsible' policies are raising unemployment levels, reducing economic growth, forcing interest rates down, forcing house prices up, increasing income tax levels etc etc, and the deficit has increased!!

What a bunch of ****wits!!ha ha

New Commodore Hey! So you used your own money? Would you like to buy a used bridge?
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Trev
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Australia
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Posted - 08 Apr 2015 :  14:53:34  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
add to that the comments of a number of prominent sources this morning saying that the Government needs to stimulate the economy and to not worry about a deficit, this Government is like a blade of grass - blowing in the wind with no idea which direction to go next, even their supporters, the Industry council and some employers groups are paying out on them - ****en idiots have no idea




I reserve the right to arm bears

Edited by - Trev on 08 Apr 2015 15:00:31
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27GV
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Posted - 08 Apr 2015 :  15:52:11  Show Profile Send 27GV a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
You want to really fix the budget? Cut down on tax fraud by big business.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/joe-hockey-steps-in-to-protect-suspected-tax-dodger-multinationals-from-being-identified-20150408-1mgfix.html

Surprise surprise, when Hockey can make $30 billion dollars of tax revenue by cracking down on rich fraudsters his tough guy attitude magically vanishes. Shameful failures.


_Mford
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
10021 Posts
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Posted - 08 Apr 2015 :  15:59:04  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trev

the Government needs to stimulate the economy and to not worry about a deficit

I'm starting to agree. Red ink can be the new black. Besides, why should us baby-boomers worry about leaving massive debt when we go? I can help by doing my own bit to stimulate the economy. I had a friend call in recently, driving his new Ferrari F12 Berlinetta. $700,000 worth of car. Hmm... I could get one of those, plus a boat and something to tow it, plus, plus... leave my kids with a debt instead of an inheritance. That''s the way to do it, money for nothing and your chicks for free.
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Trev
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Posted - 08 Apr 2015 :  17:45:05  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Remember Zac, Government should do business like a 'not for profit' business is required to, not as a profit making machine like Howard / Costello did

I reserve the right to arm bears
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
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Posted - 08 Apr 2015 :  18:06:29  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
They're doing that pretty well. Not as well as the last lot, but with the last lot's persistence, they're improving all the time.
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Trev
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Australia
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Posted - 09 Apr 2015 :  06:48:20  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
They just need to come up with fiscal policies that target the higher end of town equally and they might get some of it through the Senate, they need to stop blaming Shorten and start looking at their own stupid policies

I reserve the right to arm bears
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
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Posted - 09 Apr 2015 :  07:58:42  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
"Blaming" Bill Shorten is neither here nor there. Don't let it bother you as it's just part of the political blather that all parties indulge in. It's just become worse lately. I agree on targeting the major tax 'minimisers'. If you heard some of the responses from the international companies being questioned at the Senate enquiry yesterday, you'd have been as equally pissed off as me. The ATO has stated that $60,000,000,000 is being shifted offshore annually by these companies to avoid Australian tax. The problem is that what they're doing is not illegal. Senator Bill Heffernan is on the right track when he says that it needs co-operation between nations to shut down these schemes. We won't hold our breath.

When it comes to mining companies paying more tax: we agree - and I've said so on here before. It's a pity we couldn't have got such legislation in place earlier when mining exports were booming.

Edited by - Zac on 09 Apr 2015 12:27:32
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karter
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Posted - 09 Apr 2015 :  08:49:22  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trev

Remember Zac, Government should do business like a 'not for profit' business is required to, not as a profit making machine like Howard / Costello did



So, just get deeper and deeper into debt, so that more and more tax dollars are wasted paying interest, rather than building infrastructure, creating jobs etc?

Government IS not-for-profit. But sensible management means not spending far more than you earn. That's the path to economic collapse.
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Trev
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Posted - 09 Apr 2015 :  09:36:46  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Sensible (Government) management means keeping the country afloat which is sometimes bigger than having a deficit, you are being blinded by the Liberal Party bull-****, read what the industry and financial leaders are saying, don't just listen to me

I reserve the right to arm bears
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
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Posted - 09 Apr 2015 :  11:48:19  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Well, I took your advice Trev, and went and had a read about what industry and financial leaders are saying re debt and deficit. Maybe karter hasn't had a chance yet - or maybe he already knows what they're saying. I just had a five minute Google, typing in "Australia government debt industry leaders" in no particular order.

Here's the first one I found. It's from two days ago, so it's pretty up to date, and is a joint statement, with some of the signatories being: The Australian Industry Group, the Business Council of Australia, the Property Council of Australia, the Minerals Council of Australia, the National Farmers Federation, the Restaurant and Catering Association and the Property Council of Australia amongst others. I guess they'd be some of the industry leaders to which you referred. The long and the short of it is that they're more concerned than ever about Australia's growing government debt.
http://www.propertyoz.com.au/Article/NewsDetail.aspx?p=16&id=10769

The next one I found was from Price Waterhouse Coopers, one of the biggest and most respected global auditing firms in the world, so I guess they can be thought of as industry leaders, and certainly as highly respected business advisers. Here's their take on our government debt. It's from two months ago, so it's also current.
http://www.pwc.com.au/tax/assets/TaxTalk-13Feb15.pdf

I found a heap more, and believe it or not, I didn't find anything from any industry leaders saying anything that could be thought of as regarding any concern about our growing government debt as "Liberal Party bull****".

As far as I'm concerned, people who think that we don't have a debt problem - a "Budget Crisis" some might say, just don't make any sense. The current government might be blundering along in different directions, but the alternative government won't acknowledge that there's a problem. It certainly hasn't offered up any plan to improve the situation. They're 'Debt Deniers', and that makes them as silly as 'Climate Change Deniers'.

As you suggested reading up on the subject, here's some more reading matter I found which you can read up on:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-16/deadlock-leaves-government-facing-300b-budget-hole/5602580

I found quite a few links that were very critical of the government (especially it's recent about-face, telling us that things are starting to look rosy again ) and other links that reject the terms "budget crisis" or "debt crisis", but none that share your view about "Sensible Government management means keeping the country afloat which is sometimes bigger than having a deficit". The country will stay afloat regardless, but it won't stay up forever if we don't get the debt down. We can argue about how best to get it down, but ignoring our growing debt doesn't help at all.

PS. Note that I didn't post any links to any of the lurid 'Debt Crisis' stuff that the awful 'Right Wing Media' keeps throwing at us. I found a heap of it, just as I'm sure you can find alternative links to the Left Wing versions.

Edited by - Zac on 09 Apr 2015 12:26:26
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Trev
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Australia
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Posted - 09 Apr 2015 :  12:52:54  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
You missed my point, my point was not about Government debt, but I guess you could be blind-sided by that, what I was talking about was the concerns of these people in regard to the slowing economy and the need for it to be stimulated, but I guess when you have those Liberal Party glasses on (despite your repeated statements to the contrary) you would miss my point, so I am not surprised

I reserve the right to arm bears
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
10021 Posts
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Posted - 09 Apr 2015 :  13:09:17  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I guess I was lead away from your point by you when you said "Sensible (Government) management means keeping the country afloat which is sometimes bigger than having a deficit". Sorry 'bout that. Re my having "those Liberal Party glasses on": Could you point out my posts supporting the Liberal Party. I can't see them. Must be the glasses. Was it the one where I said the current government is blundering along in different directions - or was it the one about them doing pretty well running the country as a 'not for profit' business? It could have been me referring to their "about face", trying to convince us that things are looking rosy again. I can find plenty of posts where I strongly support reducing debt, and heaps where I've criticised the Labor Party, but that's not the same thing. Maybe you're missing my point.

Coincidentally, none of the links in my post support the Liberal Party either. They sure are concerned about government debt though. If they want the economy stimulated, it's a secondary concern, and if "stimulating the economy" means going back to what the previous government thought was so stimulating, I don't think even you would want to go back there. Oh, and if you thought I might somehow support the way Hockey and Abbott are running Australia, you must have thought I was someone else. Perhaps some post I made previously misled you in the same way as yours misled me.

Edited by - Zac on 09 Apr 2015 13:39:52
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karter
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Posted - 09 Apr 2015 :  14:35:21  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trev

You missed my point, my point was not about Government debt, but I guess you could be blind-sided by that, what I was talking about was the concerns of these people in regard to the slowing economy and the need for it to be stimulated, but I guess when you have those Liberal Party glasses on (despite your repeated statements to the contrary) you would miss my point, so I am not surprised



When you resort to making personal comments about people, rather than arguing the facts, you clearly have lost the argument and have nothing worthwhile to say.

I don't like Abbotts approach either. But at least he grasps the fact that at some point the government simply must stop throwing money around like it's going out of style, and has to work toward at least balancing a budget, and eventually reducing debt.
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