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karter
Team Manager


11736 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 11 Apr 2015 :  13:51:07  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trev

quote:
Originally posted by bundy5

No need to and this goes to Trev wanting the government to stimulate the economy which will put the budget further into the red.

The problem with raising the GST or stimulating the economy is that they are only short-term fixes. For the stimulus funding that Trev is looking for it is a largely inefficient waste of taxpayers money as we won't get any sort of return that is worth it for the extra debt and interest that we have to pay back.

What we need to do is structurally change this economy and the labor party needs to get on board despite its philosophical opposition to do anything which is good for the economy long-term. Now, you labor supporters that will mean workplace reform (bringing back more flexible working arrangements), competition reform, cutting welfare benefits, selling or leasing public assets to then use that money on public infrastructure that generates revenue etc.

Bottom line is you labor supporters that you can't expect the economy just to get better by itself without making any of these changes. You would be delusional if you think it could.

excellent, you are in the minding reading game now - W.A.F.W.


I was suggesting big ticket projects like schools, hospitals, roads, big infrastructure stuff, a bit like the bold Snowy River Scheme was in its day, you are so small minded, no wonder you fit in so well in the Liberal Party



You know that during Howards reign there were massive increases in spending on roads, hospitals schools etc? Probably the biggest increases the country has ever seen?

He had the funds to do that because first he got debt under control.

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REM
Team Manager



Australia
14226 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

 offline

Posted - 11 Apr 2015 :  15:23:21  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by Trev

quote:
Originally posted by bundy5

No need to and this goes to Trev wanting the government to stimulate the economy which will put the budget further into the red.

The problem with raising the GST or stimulating the economy is that they are only short-term fixes. For the stimulus funding that Trev is looking for it is a largely inefficient waste of taxpayers money as we won't get any sort of return that is worth it for the extra debt and interest that we have to pay back.

What we need to do is structurally change this economy and the labor party needs to get on board despite its philosophical opposition to do anything which is good for the economy long-term. Now, you labor supporters that will mean workplace reform (bringing back more flexible working arrangements), competition reform, cutting welfare benefits, selling or leasing public assets to then use that money on public infrastructure that generates revenue etc.

Bottom line is you labor supporters that you can't expect the economy just to get better by itself without making any of these changes. You would be delusional if you think it could.

excellent, you are in the minding reading game now - W.A.F.W.


I was suggesting big ticket projects like schools, hospitals, roads, big infrastructure stuff, a bit like the bold Snowy River Scheme was in its day, you are so small minded, no wonder you fit in so well in the Liberal Party



You know that during Howards reign there were massive increases in spending on roads, hospitals schools etc? Probably the biggest increases the country has ever seen?

He had the funds to do that because first he got debt under control.





Indeed re getting the debt under control.....that great big new tax raised so much revenue he had to start giving heaps of it back.....and a whole new red tape industry emerged...not so sure about the infrastructure investment though....Howard is commonly referred to as asleep at the wheel...

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.


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Trev
Team Manager



Australia
5741 Posts
joined 13 Feb 03

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Posted - 12 Apr 2015 :  06:35:18  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
oh and of course Mr Howard committed us to Iraq and Afghanistan, now there was another great move - FFS

I reserve the right to arm bears
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karter
Team Manager


11736 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

 offline

Posted - 12 Apr 2015 :  07:27:56  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by REM

quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by Trev

quote:
Originally posted by bundy5

No need to and this goes to Trev wanting the government to stimulate the economy which will put the budget further into the red.

The problem with raising the GST or stimulating the economy is that they are only short-term fixes. For the stimulus funding that Trev is looking for it is a largely inefficient waste of taxpayers money as we won't get any sort of return that is worth it for the extra debt and interest that we have to pay back.

What we need to do is structurally change this economy and the labor party needs to get on board despite its philosophical opposition to do anything which is good for the economy long-term. Now, you labor supporters that will mean workplace reform (bringing back more flexible working arrangements), competition reform, cutting welfare benefits, selling or leasing public assets to then use that money on public infrastructure that generates revenue etc.

Bottom line is you labor supporters that you can't expect the economy just to get better by itself without making any of these changes. You would be delusional if you think it could.

excellent, you are in the minding reading game now - W.A.F.W.


I was suggesting big ticket projects like schools, hospitals, roads, big infrastructure stuff, a bit like the bold Snowy River Scheme was in its day, you are so small minded, no wonder you fit in so well in the Liberal Party



You know that during Howards reign there were massive increases in spending on roads, hospitals schools etc? Probably the biggest increases the country has ever seen?

He had the funds to do that because first he got debt under control.





not so sure about the infrastructure investment though....Howard is commonly referred to as asleep at the wheel...



Do a little research, you'll see the infrastructure spending was real. As for asleep at the wheel, well more commonly he's considered as being Australia's best prime minister. Ever.
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Trev
Team Manager



Australia
5741 Posts
joined 13 Feb 03

 offline

Posted - 12 Apr 2015 :  17:56:12  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
By Liberal voters

Other than the GST what other major reforms did he do? well he did try to reform workplace's - LOL, which got him and Government booted out - LOL

I reserve the right to arm bears
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REM
Team Manager



Australia
14226 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

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Posted - 14 Apr 2015 :  08:04:44  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by REM

quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by Trev

quote:
Originally posted by bundy5

No need to and this goes to Trev wanting the government to stimulate the economy which will put the budget further into the red.

The problem with raising the GST or stimulating the economy is that they are only short-term fixes. For the stimulus funding that Trev is looking for it is a largely inefficient waste of taxpayers money as we won't get any sort of return that is worth it for the extra debt and interest that we have to pay back.

What we need to do is structurally change this economy and the labor party needs to get on board despite its philosophical opposition to do anything which is good for the economy long-term. Now, you labor supporters that will mean workplace reform (bringing back more flexible working arrangements), competition reform, cutting welfare benefits, selling or leasing public assets to then use that money on public infrastructure that generates revenue etc.

Bottom line is you labor supporters that you can't expect the economy just to get better by itself without making any of these changes. You would be delusional if you think it could.

excellent, you are in the minding reading game now - W.A.F.W.


I was suggesting big ticket projects like schools, hospitals, roads, big infrastructure stuff, a bit like the bold Snowy River Scheme was in its day, you are so small minded, no wonder you fit in so well in the Liberal Party



You know that during Howards reign there were massive increases in spending on roads, hospitals schools etc? Probably the biggest increases the country has ever seen?

He had the funds to do that because first he got debt under control.





not so sure about the infrastructure investment though....Howard is commonly referred to as asleep at the wheel...



Do a little research, you'll see the infrastructure spending was real. As for asleep at the wheel, well more commonly he's considered as being Australia's best prime minister. Ever.


Never been to a Klan meeting myself

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.



Edited by - REM on 14 Apr 2015 08:09:28
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Trickyonne
Sex God



Vatican City
17530 Posts
joined 13 Apr 03

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Posted - 14 Apr 2015 :  08:17:37  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trev

oh and of course Mr Howard committed us to Iraq and Afghanistan, now there was another great move - FFS



really ?? and what did the ALP do when they were in power ???...pull us out straight away did they ???


fair dinkium

Ford 2018 champions
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REM
Team Manager



Australia
14226 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

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Posted - 14 Apr 2015 :  09:37:16  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
1 million deaths now....in an illegal war....based on what was known to be a lie.....memorable...certainly,....action and legacy of a greatest ever leader .....not by my count

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/30164-report-shows-us-invasion-occupation-of-iraq-left-1-million-dead


That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.



Edited by - REM on 14 Apr 2015 09:38:20
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
9779 Posts
joined 24 Dec 04

 offline

Posted - 14 Apr 2015 :  12:33:09  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
"Illegal war". Interesting term, that one. All wars are illegal. For a war to be a legal war, it must fit three criteria:

1) There must be a UN resolution to go to war when all alternative options have failed.

2) It is in self-defence. (In other words, a country has been attacked.)

3) A war needs to be formally declared by a sovereign state after all negotiations have broken down. (WWII being an example, when Britain and France declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland illegally and refused to withdraw.) That was certainly not legally sanctioned by the UN though, because the UN didn't exist.

My answers to those points:

1) I don't know why the UN has to decide whether a war is legal or otherwise. When conflicts start and grow, not many aggressors take notice of the UN.

2) If a war is in self defence, it means a country has already been attacked. So, starting a legal war in self defence, is only occurring after an illegal war has already started by an act of aggression.

3) I can't think of any wars that have started by being legally declared. WWII was formally declared by Britain and France, although why them, I don't really know. Anyway, the UN wasn't around to legalise it, and the war that became WWII had already started when Germany invaded Poland.

In the case of the "illegal war" in Iraq: When did it begin, and by whom? Was it when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990? That would certainly make it an illegal war. Saddam certainly wasn't bothered by the criteria I've listed. Some may choose to forget his act of aggression/war and move onto what happened next, which was also 'illegal'. Still, saying a war is an 'illegal' war certainly helps stir people into even more emotive rhetoric.

I was getting away from the 'Libs vs ALP' topic, but I'd like to add that it's good to see that after nearly 400 pages, we're finally getting close to consensus on here.

Edited by - Zac on 14 Apr 2015 12:36:48
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Trev
Team Manager



Australia
5741 Posts
joined 13 Feb 03

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Posted - 14 Apr 2015 :  12:41:22  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trickyonne

quote:
Originally posted by Trev

oh and of course Mr Howard committed us to Iraq and Afghanistan, now there was another great move - FFS



really ?? and what did the ALP do when they were in power ???...pull us out straight away did they ???


fair dinkium

so you support us being in Iraq and Afhanistan

I reserve the right to arm bears
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Trickyonne
Sex God



Vatican City
17530 Posts
joined 13 Apr 03

 offline

Posted - 14 Apr 2015 :  13:21:21  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trev

quote:
Originally posted by Trickyonne

quote:
Originally posted by Trev

oh and of course Mr Howard committed us to Iraq and Afghanistan, now there was another great move - FFS



really ?? and what did the ALP do when they were in power ???...pull us out straight away did they ???


fair dinkium

so you support us being in Iraq and Afhanistan



no i dont...unlike the previous labour government

Ford 2018 champions
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Trev
Team Manager



Australia
5741 Posts
joined 13 Feb 03

 offline

Posted - 14 Apr 2015 :  15:03:04  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
ummm, I think it was Labor who set the deadline to get the troops out of Iraq and they continued to support the Liberal Party policy of keeping them in Afghanistan, come on T1 you are smarter than that

For the record I don't think we should have got involved in either war, Howard set us up to be seen as America's puppet

I see (R)Abbott has farewelled more troops to Iraq - FFS and I also he is now trying to spin-doctor it to say "ummm ahhhh we are not really sending troops to Iraq doh!!"

I reserve the right to arm bears

Edited by - Trev on 14 Apr 2015 15:08:00
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Trickyonne
Sex God



Vatican City
17530 Posts
joined 13 Apr 03

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Posted - 14 Apr 2015 :  15:13:20  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
so keeping them in Afghanistan is a good thing since the ALP supported it ?

Ford 2018 champions
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karter
Team Manager


11736 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 14 Apr 2015 :  15:23:00  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
The really noticeable thing in this thread is that the labour apologists can't refrain from personal insults. They simply are not capable of arguing the point. I take that a tacit admission that they know they are wrong, and are trying to deflect the discussion to personal attacks.

So if you're going to keep calling people ****ing idiots or members of the klan - right back at you. ****wits.
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Trickyonne
Sex God



Vatican City
17530 Posts
joined 13 Apr 03

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Posted - 14 Apr 2015 :  15:34:02  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

The really noticeable thing in this thread is that the labour apologists can't refrain from personal insults. They simply are not capable of arguing the point. I take that a tacit admission that they know they are wrong, and are trying to deflect the discussion to personal attacks.

So if you're going to keep calling people ****ing idiots or members of the klan - right back at you. ****wits.



and whats with (R)abbott ???...sure that may have been funny 320 pages ago

Ford 2018 champions
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