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bundy1
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Posted - 01 Jun 2016 :  22:04:27  Show Profile Send bundy1 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Zac

quote:
Originally posted by Trev
the agreement first has to go through FWA and be approved (rubber stamped) by them, so in reality who was asleep at the wheel? FWA in my opinion, coz they are the ones who should have to run it pass the "better off overall test" )

It appears to me that the Coles workers were let down by FWA, they are the 'police' in this

It is easy for the right wing media to Target Shorten, but bottom line whoever puts stuff up has to be passed by FWA, that is how the system works
FWA? Do you mean the FWC (Fair Work Commission)? Yes, it sounds like it was asleep at the wheel, and that some of the detail in the Coles/SDA agreement slipped through. Still, it was Coles and the SDA who drew this agreement up together (with help from some 'expert' from Ernst & Young) - and if the FWC let the Coles workers down, then the SDA (the Coles workers' Union) certainly let them down big-time.

I haven't seen the "Right-wing media" targeting Shorten about this, but I don't read or watch much right-wing media to know. There wasn't any targeting of Bill in the link LG provided. All it said was "It comes at an uncomfortable time for Bill Shorten and the ACTU who have made the defence of penalty rates a key part of the election campaign" - which it does. It's just another little sideshow in the election campaign though, and won't be more than a blip in any effect on how people vote.

It's hard to believe that the FWC had no idea that this "arrangement" was not a good deal for around 77,000 Coles employees, but it's equally hard to believe that Shorten, who is so closely aligned to the Union movement and counts on the SDA for support, had no idea about this "arrangement" until now, but just like the FWC, maybe he didn't. Shorten has now said that the SDA and Coles have to... "rectify the mistakes, full-stop. They need to fix it up." Right on, Bill.

The question that needs to be answered is why did the SDA sign up to this deal. Did Coles slip one past the Union - or was it more than that? Either the SDA is incompetent in representing its members' interests, or it's complicit.



The thing is that the relationship is mutually beneficial for both parties. Coles in that they reduce the industrial disputation which in turns reduces costs and SDA as they are the main union for workers of which, as you say, there is 77,000 employees that are already or are potential members of the union and the ACTU (and by association the Labor Party) don't agitate even further for the rights of the workers because of this number being strong for what is traditionally the Labor base.

I don't think you can say that this deal won't see the workers better off but whether that also means that it is a "good deal", well I guess that will come down to the FWC which they have ruled by saying that it left the workers short of what they were really entitled to that you couldn't say that it was a "good deal".

Well said - sums up the hypocrisy of LG and the fordies -
http://www.v8central.com/snitz3403/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39351&whichpage=11#875389




Edited by - bundy1 on 01 Jun 2016 22:06:36
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Legendary Gerry
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Posted - 01 Jun 2016 :  23:11:31  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trev

so, did Shorten actually negotiate this deal personally?

And yes I meant FWC, I use FWA legislation in my daily speak, so my apologies




==================================================



Shorten is supposedly the boss...




or the puppet?



Take your choice.
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Zac
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Posted - 02 Jun 2016 :  00:18:47  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trev

so, did Shorten actually negotiate this deal personally?
Why would you think that? No.
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bundy1
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Posted - 02 Jun 2016 :  00:30:17  Show Profile Send bundy1 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

quote:
Originally posted by Trev

so, did Shorten actually negotiate this deal personally?

And yes I meant FWC, I use FWA legislation in my daily speak, so my apologies




==================================================



Shorten is supposedly the boss...




or the puppet?



Take your choice.



According to Shorten at the debate on Sunday, it is Turnbull who is controlled by the Liberal Party factions and Shorten himself is his own man.

Well said - sums up the hypocrisy of LG and the fordies -
http://www.v8central.com/snitz3403/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39351&whichpage=11#875389



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Trev
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Posted - 02 Jun 2016 :  08:15:06  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Zac

quote:
Originally posted by Trev

so, did Shorten actually negotiate this deal personally?
Why would you think that? No.



So, you know the next question, why are they blaming him personally, or is it just another media beat up, guilty by association

I reserve the right to arm bears
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Zac
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Posted - 02 Jun 2016 :  10:47:23  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Who are these people blaming him (personally or otherwise)? I'm not seeing this media beat-up at all. "Guilty by association"? I don't even know about that. Bill is "associated", but I can't find anything in the media accusing him of guilt, complicity, or anything else. Not even in The Tele.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/federal-election/official-rebuke-of-major-union-and-alp-ally-could-harm-campaign-to-save-weekend-wage-rates/news-story/c4b5014426e6358db6ec4a1634029ebd

http://www.smh.com.au/national/investigations/cosy-coles-deal-with-shop-union-that-left-workers-worse-off-under-further-scrutiny-20160202-gmjiue.html

http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/workers-deserve-better-than-shameful-coles-deal-with-union-20160531-gp8ayj.html

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CP
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Posted - 06 Jun 2016 :  12:07:22  Show Profile  Visit CP's Homepage Send CP a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
To quote a Queensland senate candidate.

Please explain?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/waste-water-test-aims-to-lead-police-to-drug-hot-spots/news-story/681bd52e06056faab16bfc30bc13acdd
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bundy1
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Posted - 07 Jun 2016 :  14:43:05  Show Profile Send bundy1 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Time for a new vote - centre right conservative for me.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/your-vote.html

Well said - sums up the hypocrisy of LG and the fordies -
http://www.v8central.com/snitz3403/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39351&whichpage=11#875389



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CP
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Posted - 07 Jun 2016 :  19:01:14  Show Profile  Visit CP's Homepage Send CP a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Not a surprisingly bad idea from Mr Shorten. It's not a bad idea have a certain number of apprentices involved with these nation building ideas.

http://www.themercury.com.au/news/national/federal-election/labor-would-bring-in-apprenticeship-quota-plan-with-a-target-of-2600-places-for-young-workers/news-story/e725a8ec311719c8dd12fa23f8aa8dcb
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bundy1
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Posted - 07 Jun 2016 :  21:02:44  Show Profile Send bundy1 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by CP

Not a surprisingly bad idea from Mr Shorten. It's not a bad idea have a certain number of apprentices involved with these nation building ideas.

http://www.themercury.com.au/news/national/federal-election/labor-would-bring-in-apprenticeship-quota-plan-with-a-target-of-2600-places-for-young-workers/news-story/e725a8ec311719c8dd12fa23f8aa8dcb



Yes it is. 10% is too high. It is going to cause these projects to go over budget. 2-3 % would be better.

Well said - sums up the hypocrisy of LG and the fordies -
http://www.v8central.com/snitz3403/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39351&whichpage=11#875389



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Trev
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Posted - 08 Jun 2016 :  07:26:03  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
It is about time someone realised the importance of apprenticeships, traditionally it has always been Government who has have taken a sizeable share of apprenticeships, places like Gvmt owned power companies, telecommunications, rail, etc, it is good to see we are going back to that. Gvmt needs to step up in places like this and not expect private enterprise to do it, as obviously they (power, rail, phone) aren't doing it

Talk to many old tradies and they will tell you they got their start doing their apprenticeships for Gvmt.

Building will continue to employ apprentices, but they need help as they are generally only small businesses.

The whole concept of bringing in 'tradies' from overseas has stunk to me for some time, I was like WTF??????

I reserve the right to arm bears
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CP
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Posted - 08 Jun 2016 :  14:54:58  Show Profile  Visit CP's Homepage Send CP a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bundy1

quote:
Originally posted by CP

Not a surprisingly bad idea from Mr Shorten. It's not a bad idea have a certain number of apprentices involved with these nation building ideas.

http://www.themercury.com.au/news/national/federal-election/labor-would-bring-in-apprenticeship-quota-plan-with-a-target-of-2600-places-for-young-workers/news-story/e725a8ec311719c8dd12fa23f8aa8dcb



Yes it is. 10% is too high. It is going to cause these projects to go over budget. 2-3 % would be better.



Possibly, but it does show foresight on Bill's part that his possible government will advocate for more training of apprentices under their version of jobs and growth. Malcolm's on the other hand doesn't show any incentives to have apprentices ion his version of jobs and growth.

Assuming Bill gets in, hopefully his idea flows down into the private sector so they have incentives to put more apprentices on, and more specifically first or second year ones.

The only apprenticeships they seem to advertise for at the moment are third or fourth years.
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bundy1
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Posted - 10 Jun 2016 :  09:12:19  Show Profile Send bundy1 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Does everyone agree that Bill Shorten seems like the guy that always wants to pay for things with someone else's credit card?

What a joke.

Well said - sums up the hypocrisy of LG and the fordies -
http://www.v8central.com/snitz3403/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39351&whichpage=11#875389




Edited by - bundy1 on 10 Jun 2016 09:13:32
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Legendary Gerry
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Posted - 10 Jun 2016 :  09:58:56  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
So the rumour today is that Shorten and the ALP are going to pay for all their promises by cutting welfare, something they have been blocking for the past few years.
Scratches head...
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Trev
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Posted - 10 Jun 2016 :  13:35:39  Show Profile  Visit Trev's Homepage Send Trev a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Of course everyone forgets (conveniently) that this current Government has racked up more debt than Labor did under Rudd/Gillard/Rudd

And how are they going pay for their promises? Come on you blokes, be a bit fair dinkum here

I reserve the right to arm bears
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