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Trickyonne
Sex God



Vatican City
17532 Posts
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Posted - 10 Jun 2019 :  17:53:31  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

Yes I watched the link hence the question...



Ok...sorry, I assumed you understood as it was very clear I thought

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Legendary Gerry
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Australia
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Posted - 10 Jun 2019 :  20:59:48  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Very unclear. Were you saying that the raids were nonsense or were you saying the ALP's response is nonsense?
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Trickyonne
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Vatican City
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Posted - 10 Jun 2019 :  21:04:45  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

Very unclear. Were you saying that the raids were nonsense or were you saying the ALP's response is nonsense?



Clearly the raids were warranted.....clearly the ALP are hypocritical

How’s that ?

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Jam3s
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2771 Posts
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Posted - 10 Jun 2019 :  21:56:16  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
.

Edited by - Jam3s on 10 Jun 2019 21:57:18
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hml2777
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Cuba
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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  07:17:10  Show Profile Send hml2777 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
the goverment. dutton is dirty over the raids
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Trickyonne
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Vatican City
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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  07:36:00  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by hml2777

the goverment. dutton is dirty over the raids



why ?....1 reason would be good

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Legendary Gerry
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Australia
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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  08:00:39  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trickyonne

quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

Very unclear. Were you saying that the raids were nonsense or were you saying the ALP's response is nonsense?



Clearly the raids were warranted.....clearly the ALP are hypocritical

How’s that ?



Thank you because that is not the implication of your words.
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oldtimer
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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  09:40:32  Show Profile Send oldtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
It seems to me:

1. Information and property were stolen.

2. Some of that information was published.

3. The event/incident in question in the papers happened when Labor was in power. Mark Dreyfus, the Labor Shadow Attorney General wrote demanding that the leak be handed to the police for investigation.

4. His letter/letters were acted upon by the relevant Public Servants and referred to the police.

5. The police investigated.

6. Labor leaders, including Dreyfus blamed Dutton and the Morrison Government and complained about the investigation.

7. Dreyfus then complains that another of his letters was referred to the Police and they are closing that investigation, without raids.

8. 9. 10 etc. Repeat step 6 infinitely.
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Zac
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Australia
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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  11:47:38  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Step 6 can be repeated indefinitely, regardless of which party is in government. Both sides are equally able to leak and allow leaks when it suits, and both sides are equally able to complain and protest about the other when the other side does it. Both sides can make issues that are leaked (or they can make any issues, whether they are leaked or not) "matters of national security", "extremely confidential", "top secret" or any other category they choose. They may be any of those, or they may be matters that embarrass the government, or simply matters they would prefer we didn't know.

Neither of the two matters that resulted in the recent AFP raids were matters of national security, or anything like it. For example, the leak that led to the Annika Smethurst story was about a "plan" (some say it was an idea) back in 2012-2013 for the Australian Signals Directorate to spy on citizens possibly involved in cyber crime. That was unusual as the ASD as part of our defence force is not normally used to fight domestic crime. Anyway, the plan never went ahead, and it is now 2019. The other matter concerned Australian armed forces in Afghanistan between 2009 and 2013 allegedly killing unarmed civilians including children, and also cutting off the hands of killed Taliban soldiers and carrying out other atrocities. It's shocking and embarrassing, because we want to believe our soldiers are better than that, but the story 6-10 years later is not a matter of national security, or top secret, or should be kept from Australian citizens.

It's curious that the head of the AFP has refused to say whether the Government was advised or knew about the raids, while the Government says that it was not.

Moving on... there will always be leaks. The Government, from Prime Ministers down, leaks, the Opposition leaks, government departments leak, public servants from police to prison staff to all the others leak, and people in private business leak. It comes down to whether we should have the right to know. The alternative is a state where we are only told what the government wants us to know. I don't know about everyone else here, but I don't want that - and with good reason.

Edited by - Zac on 11 Jun 2019 11:54:31
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hml2777
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Cuba
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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  12:25:35  Show Profile Send hml2777 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
rudd was one of the worst for leaks
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oldtimer
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4039 Posts
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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  12:26:10  Show Profile Send oldtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
This was not about "leaks".

It was about stealing, including physical items.

The police are pursuing the thief or thieves.

Even though at least one person has claimed that he is the thief, there may be others.


Strangely, the Coalition Government has had legislation passed that gives greater protection to journalists who receive stolen information.

The Police are acting under the pre-change laws that applied when the coalition won government, and the WHOLE of the time Labor was in power, where they did not change it, and for several government before that.
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Trickyonne
Sex God



Vatican City
17532 Posts
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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  13:13:34  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
https://www.9news.com.au/national/john-setka-anthony-albanese-to-expel-union-boss-from-labor-party/1a0a0da3-5761-4f53-9835-80103214fb92

How sexist is this parity ?....fair dinkium.....attacking Rosie of all people, typical union thug

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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
9780 Posts
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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  14:02:13  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer

This was not about "leaks".

It was about stealing, including physical items.

The police are pursuing the thief or thieves.

Even though at least one person has claimed that he is the thief, there may be others.


Strangely, the Coalition Government has had legislation passed that gives greater protection to journalists who receive stolen information.

The Police are acting under the pre-change laws that applied when the coalition won government, and the WHOLE of the time Labor was in power, where they did not change it, and for several government before that.
You sound outraged that someone STOLE something(allegedly, thus far). I think any reasonable person (including those in the AFP) will weigh up the alleged THEFTS against the bigger issues here. Let's see how these two matters play out. Firstly, let's see if the THIEVES are found guilty, and if they are? Chop their hands off, or a more enlightened judgement?

Earlier today I was reading an article by Peter Greste. Peter is an Australian journalist who was jailed in Egypt for suspicion of reporting news "damaging to national security". He was jailed in solitary confinement for a month before he was charged and then sentenced to seven years jail once he was found guilty. The charges and verdict were ridiculous. He was eventually deported to Australia. At least he wasn't found guilty of THEFT.

Edited by - Zac on 11 Jun 2019 14:08:02
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oldtimer
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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  16:09:33  Show Profile Send oldtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Zac

quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer

This was not about "leaks".

It was about stealing, including physical items.

The police are pursuing the thief or thieves.

Even though at least one person has claimed that he is the thief, there may be others.


Strangely, the Coalition Government has had legislation passed that gives greater protection to journalists who receive stolen information.

The Police are acting under the pre-change laws that applied when the coalition won government, and the WHOLE of the time Labor was in power, where they did not change it, and for several government before that.
You sound outraged that someone STOLE something(allegedly, thus far). I think any reasonable person (including those in the AFP) will weigh up the alleged THEFTS against the bigger issues here. Let's see how these two matters play out. Firstly, let's see if the THIEVES are found guilty, and if they are? Chop their hands off, or a more enlightened judgement?

Earlier today I was reading an article by Peter Greste. Peter is an Australian journalist who was jailed in Egypt for suspicion of reporting news "damaging to national security". He was jailed in solitary confinement for a month before he was charged and then sentenced to seven years jail once he was found guilty. The charges and verdict were ridiculous. He was eventually deported to Australia. At least he wasn't found guilty of THEFT.



It not me who is outraged. It's Mark Dreyfus who complained about the theft and the police are acting on his complaint passed on by the public service.

As for Peter Greste, I understand he was working for Al Jezera which is owned by someone who is widely alleged to be supplying funds to terrorists.

Journalists are not above the law and the law that applies is the country that they are in, not the country they come from, or the country that employs them.

Is it any wonder that in survey after survey that jounalists are not trusted.

Here is one example from 2017 (last 5 professions)

Journalists and Estate Agents: 27%
Professional Footballers: 26%
Government Ministers: 19%
Politicians generally: 17 %

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2017-11/trust-in-professions-veracity-index-2017-slides.pdf

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7244-roy-morgan-image-of-professions-may-2017-201706051543

Another poll mentioned on TV a few years ago lead to an interesting exchange. (not verbatim)

TV talking head: The public have indicated in a recent survey that they do not trust politicians.

Politician being interviewed: That's true. In fact our results are almost as bad as journalists.






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hml2777
Pit Crew



Cuba
193 Posts
joined 09 Mar 05

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Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  17:01:47  Show Profile Send hml2777 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer

This was not about "leaks".

It was about stealing, including physical items.

The police are pursuing the thief or thieves.

Even though at least one person has claimed that he is the thief, there may be others.


Strangely, the Coalition Government has had legislation passed that gives greater protection to journalists who receive stolen information.

The Police are acting under the pre-change laws that applied when the coalition won government, and the WHOLE of the time Labor was in power, where they did not change it, and for several government before that.

time will be the truth teller. lets see who gets charged by police. my bet is no one
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