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Henry
Jaded Old Coot



Australia
3362 Posts
joined 12 Feb 04

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Posted - 14 Apr 2014 :  17:06:28  Show Profile  Visit Henry's Homepage Send Henry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by DrivesLikeJehu

Henry, we're getting on the same page. But if any team did that, penalise them for endeavouring to deliberately circumvent a safety system. DON'T ping them for 43kmh speed violation!! (And don't penalise so hard that we're throwing the baby out with the bath water). Such attempts could easily be monitored and recorded by the datalogger. No phracking radar gun necessary.

Arguably, if they ping them inflexibly for the speed stuff, we should never get to the stage of a safety system circumvention (which I would nominate as being one that would necessitate a penalty such as "stop the car at your pit, get out of it, do not touch it again this weekend"... not because I'm a safety ninny - I believe in common sense and a certain amount of Darwinism - but in order to make them think twice about whether or not it's worth trying on.)

Dad once said "son, arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon. Even if you're a grand master, playing at your best, the pigeon is just going to **** on the board and then walk around like it won".
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PVDA
Team Manager


2557 Posts
joined 02 Nov 02

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Posted - 14 Apr 2014 :  23:17:19  Show Profile Send PVDA a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by TJ85

The only thing I could see having an impact is the temperature and thermal expansion of the road or wires in a timing loop - no timing loop would ever be set-up with a bend as the distance cannot effectively be metered.


The loops are nowhere near the S Bend at Pit Entry at Winton, refer to my earlier Larko got it wrong post.
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TJ85
Formula Ford Driver



Australia
477 Posts
joined 29 Nov 07

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Posted - 15 Apr 2014 :  11:04:50  Show Profile Send TJ85 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
That was my suggestion PVDA - nobody would build a loop in a road that curves, as per winton it is in the straight part of the entry - maybe I wasn't clear in the way I wrote it. Theoretically you could have a curve in the loop area but you would have to make the time factor over the shortest possible length that could be travelled between triggers - best to just do it in a straight line.

The expansion piece was to say that maybe the road shrunk with temp or the loop was measured on a really hot day making the distance factor different based on temperature. However the variation would be so marginal that it would only really have an impact if the loop was only 2-3 metres long.

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EgoFG
Fujitsu Driver



Australia
657 Posts
joined 16 Oct 08

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Posted - 15 Apr 2014 :  11:50:31  Show Profile Send EgoFG a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
"The entire car is sliding"

This would explain a divergance between the cars telemetry and the speed detected by radar or loop.
four wheel lockup would report as zero kmph in car.
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PVDA
Team Manager


2557 Posts
joined 02 Nov 02

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Posted - 15 Apr 2014 :  13:49:41  Show Profile Send PVDA a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by EgoFG

"The entire car is sliding"


I said Slip in my original post not locked up solid.

Tyres do not grip the road surface perfectly and under braking or acceleration would "slip" on the road surface.

Think a dog trying to run , stop or turn on a lino floor
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oldtimer
Team Manager



4219 Posts
joined 19 Jun 11

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Posted - 18 Apr 2014 :  12:44:26  Show Profile Send oldtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Frosty:
quote:
Ford driver Mark 'Frosty' Winterbottom says veteran racer Russell Ingall was right to speak up about his penalty at Winton two weeks ago but he went about it the wrong way.
quote:
"I actually support what he said because there's guys out there who try and absolutely fight till the end of it when they should just yield a position.

"He was on fresh tyres, he was always going to get past them. Yield, be smart and then follow him through.

"Instead, they turn in and there's always going to be contact."


http://www.sportsfan.com.au/ingall-was-right-to-speak-up-frosty/tabid/91/newsid/128888/default.aspx
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FOX 42
Team Manager



Australia
2733 Posts
joined 01 Jan 04

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Posted - 18 Apr 2014 :  12:50:38  Show Profile Send FOX 42 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
100% agree with Frosty.

The guy got what he desearved in my book. And even after the penalty Ingall still finished ahead of him.

So he fought to the death, and lost. Very Dumb move in my opinion, I would have let Russle past and taken a top ten result home.
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DrivesLikeJehu
V8 Champion



Australia
1061 Posts
joined 30 Nov 10

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Posted - 18 Apr 2014 :  12:54:53  Show Profile Send DrivesLikeJehu a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Another in agreeance here. Rusty speaking his mind? Applauded. No penalty due. Going too far and losing half your audience? Fair penalty.
Quick apology? Fair suspension of most of the penalty. Review of DSO standards and practices in future? Hopefully . Good result in the end ( hopefully).

Edited by - DrivesLikeJehu on 18 Apr 2014 13:34:23
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bengatta
Tea Lady


658 Posts
joined 29 Mar 05

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Posted - 08 Dec 2017 :  15:20:15  Show Profile  Visit bengatta's Homepage Send bengatta a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
For a trip down memory lane... look at the arguments being presented in this thread and overlay them with a more recent set of circumstances... then take a look at the people who are using such arguments and head back and review the arguments from the more recent events...

here is a thought... it is not the officials who are inconsistent... there are clear inconsistencies in the interpretation from various fans who pretend to demand consistency but only when it is for their favourite team or driver... not when it goes the other way.

now I am sure the brains trust will now try to turn this around into some form of conspiracy theory and it has been happening for far too long and blah blah blah blah blah… the bottom line is. The system that is in place is the system that is in place… it was what was used back then, and it is used now… there was no defence for a breach then… and there is no defence to a breach now…

at the bottom of page one... "Rick presented data to say we didn't speed sir?" you will all note that it is LG himself who calls his bluff... But when Ryan Story says “we didn’t do it sir”... LG moves straight to "corruption at its worst, it’s all rigged and all officials should be shot"...

go back through all 11 pages if you dare... it’s a real fun experience... and actually highlights the problems officials really face... even when they are consistent, it depends on which team it is as to who blows their stack claiming inconsistencies...

pay particular attention to the comments on page 9… no bugger it, I will draw your attention to it in case you missed it…

http://www.v8central.com/snitz3403/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39351&whichpage=9#794129

on page 6, apparently the timing loop has gone from being very very accurate to Corruption in just 3 short years.., for those still playing along at home… here it is…

http://www.v8central.com/snitz3403/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39351&whichpage=6#793849

another interesting footnote is that a person of apparent great inside knowledge was far too long out of the game back then to be able to claim absolute knowledge, so hedged his bets... yet a further 3 years on, all of a sudden his recollections have become clearer... a classic case of "the older I get the better i was syndrome" if ever their was one...

thanks fella’s for closing down your own arguments and everybody can now move on to 2018… regardless of any of Mondays output... the result of 2017 were won and lost over 25 races, not just in the last race... because an interesting footnote to the season is: if the 26th race was awarded the points it was allowed to according to the letter of the rule book... T8 would also be teams champions... because DJR made a mistake and called Scott in to pit lane... interesting that Roland was OK and agreed that the race really was not in the spirit of the competition (even though it met the actual criteria set out by the rule book) and has not made a deal out of that... even though he had the most to lose... but.... apparently V8 officialdom are so scarred of RD and he calls all the shots... what an absolute crock and your arguments lack actual consistency... just like the thread above highlights...

have a Merry Christmas…
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Legendary Gerry
Moderator



Australia
22433 Posts
joined 19 Feb 07

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Posted - 08 Dec 2017 :  15:46:05  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
OOh pick on me!

Times and circumstances change Bengatta.
I don't believe for one minute that DJRTP would be having this meeting with Supercars if they genuinely believed they didn't have a case.

Edited by - Legendary Gerry on 08 Dec 2017 15:47:24
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skaifeman
Team Manager



Australia
7044 Posts
joined 01 Aug 09

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Posted - 08 Dec 2017 :  16:03:39  Show Profile Send skaifeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

OOh pick on me!

Times and circumstances change Bengatta.
I don't believe for one minute that DJRTP would be having this meeting with Supercars if they genuinely believed they didn't have a case.


And so too the teams that got done here...

quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

quote:
Originally posted by skaifeman

Rick has stated that the data from his car shows no PLP for speeding should've been given!




Of course he'd say that, wouldn't you?


A funny read.

The only difference between then and now is the badge of the car changed. In fact, going by history, even when evidence is given, if Supercars were consistent, Penske may end up with a $15k fine!


"Ford’s Bathurst winning bonus didn’t even cover the cost of the after-party" - Allan Moffat, 1977
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bigem
A polar bear



Australia
16060 Posts
joined 22 Jun 04

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Posted - 08 Dec 2017 :  16:27:54  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I think DJRTP deserve an explanation as to why Supercars got this so wrong, And what are they going to do about it? It's not a game and Penske won't run away with his tail between his legs like other **** **** team owners have done in the past because they couldn't afford to push the issue!

New Commodore Hey! So you used your own money? Would you like to buy a used bridge?
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Harry S
Fujitsu Driver



Australia
640 Posts
joined 29 Mar 09

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Posted - 08 Dec 2017 :  18:19:16  Show Profile Send Harry S a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bigem

I think DJRTP deserve an explanation as to why Supercars got this so wrong, And what are they going to do about it? It's not a game and Penske won't run away with his tail between his legs like other **** **** team owners have done in the past because they couldn't afford to push the issue!

Or DJRTP need to understand how they got it so wrong. I suspect it'll be due to the speed being measured over 5 metres by the timing system and the greater accuracy of the timing system compared to on board data that has a small number of variables.
I suspect that not much may be said publicly.

When the going gets tough..............
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Zac
Lumberjack



Australia
9922 Posts
joined 24 Dec 04

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Posted - 08 Dec 2017 :  19:23:48  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bengatta

it depends on which team it is as to who blows their stack claiming inconsistencies...

An excellent, thought-provoking post, with a nice stir there as well. I've had a good wander down the memory lane of previous pages and had a few laughs as I did. Your first post in quite a while too, I would think. You should post more often.

I'm no longer part of any Holden/Ford rivalry thing, but I'd say that DJRTP have been very restrained if they are certain the #17 did not speed in pitlane. Certainly no stack blowing.

Thanks for memory jog. Excellent.
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Wrighty05
Last of the Big Bangers



Tonga
7296 Posts
joined 25 Aug 03

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Posted - 08 Dec 2017 :  23:15:40  Show Profile  Click to see Wrighty05's MSN Messenger address Send Wrighty05 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
That was a very interesting read

RIP05

_Mholden

RIP LJ - loved and never forgotten.

"It was dry for the second go-around. Grice, nervous, worrying about his Bathurst jinx, ran 2:25.9. The amazing Brock, using every last centimetre of bitumen, yet keeping the car straight and balanced and at full noise, came back with a staggering 2:20.0 as if to say: "Match that". And people just shook their heads, bit their lips and wondered who would be second".

The Peter Brock trophy is now where it belongs.
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