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DJRford
Team Manager



Australia
10586 Posts
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  11:29:41  Show Profile Send DJRford a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Not surprised they didn't penalise Max. It's Max. What he did was wrong. You can't just force someone off the track on the exit of the corner. Pass cleanly or don't pass at all. Though most fans online seem to be glad he didn't get penalised. Wonder how everyone would feel if it was Hamilton in Max's position and he got away with it...

"Holden name goes, T8 and HRT band together and become: Chevrolet United National Team Sports, has a nice ring? Headed up by Roland of course!!" - REM

























































































_Mford














"This whole thing is just a media beat up and you V8 Supercar fans( another name for suckers, bogans, lowlifes etc ) have taken the bait hook line and sinker." - Champcarman
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Jam3s
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  12:29:43  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Brilliant drive by ves after a rubbish start. Would have won it comfortably if he'd nailed it off the line.

Gasly, oh dear.

Renault, lol.
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karter
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  12:37:52  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by journeyman racer

And you're wrong again.

It'd be good for genuine race fans if Verstappen could pass someone hitting an apex (As opposed to other cars).

Leclerc didn't chomp down hard on Verstappen. He took the wider line for a faster exit. But was denied an opportunity to pass due to Verstappen corraling him off track.

It's exactly like what you see on ovals where a car may take a high line because it's better for them overall. The trailing car may go on the inside, but that doesn't mean they have a right to the exit and brush off the guy they're attempting to pass.

But it's understandle that people get caught up in the moment, and maintain a tough man persona. Even though it's not really tough.



Yes of course I'm wrong, the officials are wrong, everybody in the world is wrong, except you.

It wasn't a perfect pass, but it wasn't bad enough to warrant a penalty. And I'm far from a Verstappen fan.

It's a bit weird to see how PC car racing is getting. Just a couple of years ago something like that wouldn't even have raised an eyebrow.
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journeyman racer
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Australia
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  13:18:44  Show Profile Send journeyman racer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I'm just saying that if you drew a graphic of that corner and the lines both Verstappen and Leclerc to throughout. Then opened up and stretched that corner to mimic a turn on an oval, it'll highlight that Verstappen was all over the place and Leclerc took a steadier line.

It was the beginning of the straight. Leclerc didn't block Verstappen going into the corner. But Verstappen corralled Leclerc off when Leclerc was beginning an attempt to pass Verstappen. He did so with little control of what he was doing because he did not have full control of his car, hence he was nowhere near the apex of the turn.

Instead of near enough being good enough. I reckon you should be pissed off at Verstappen for blocking Leclerc attempting to pass him. The fans have been denied hard, CLEAN racing.

No1 fan of James Courtney's ex-wife!
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karter
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  14:20:23  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
The way I see it is that Verstappen went to outbrake LeClerc, and outbraked himself slightly, missed the apex, and ran a bit wide on the exit. As I said, not a perfect pass, but not bad enough to warrant a penalty.

Funnily enough I seem to recall you defending Rosberg after he pulled a far worse move against Hamilton a few years back.
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skaifeman
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Australia
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  17:55:27  Show Profile Send skaifeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

The way I see it is that Verstappen went to outbrake LeClerc, and outbraked himself slightly, missed the apex, and ran a bit wide on the exit. As I said, not a perfect pass, but not bad enough to warrant a penalty.

Funnily enough I seem to recall you defending Rosberg after he pulled a far worse move against Hamilton a few years back.


I don't think Max outbraked himself, he held the wider line to avoid what happened the lap before - Le Clerc getting back passed.
A seriously clinical and forceful move, which we've come to expect from Max, Schumacher etc.

But I agree with you, it needed to be left alone.
Was it right, probably not.
Did it prevent Le Clerc from having another go, yes.
Did Max have any intention of leaving some room, nope.
That's the game we play!

Oldtimer, you're right, for an out and out CLEAN battle, it wasn't the way to do it.
But hey, that's F1. Been happening for years.

If anything, this just shows how silly Ricciardo's first penalty was last week, and even moreso the Canada one. Le Clerc was way further up the side of the car compared to Lewis on Seb... just no wall this time.


"Fordís Bathurst winning bonus didnít even cover the cost of the after-party" - Allan Moffat, 1977
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journeyman racer
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  18:38:46  Show Profile Send journeyman racer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
"Outbraked" is a nice way of saying he ****** up. Verstappen "passed" Leclerc without accounting for the inertia of his car (That's what the genuinely good drivers do). The racing on ovals analogy is a fair and accurate one.

The inside runner completely missing the apex and corralling the guy off track is not "racing".



No1 fan of James Courtney's ex-wife!
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karter
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  18:52:47  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I don't think there's much point bringing oval racing into it. I could equally argue that block passes much more aggressive than Max's effort are virtually SOP in motocross and especially supercross.

They're all motorsports, but completely different from each other.



quote:
Originally posted by skaifeman



If anything, this just shows how silly Ricciardo's first penalty was last week, and even moreso the Canada one. Le Clerc was way further up the side of the car compared to Lewis on Seb... just no wall this time.





Big difference though. Seb and Dan were pinged for an unsafe return to the track after going off. Max didn't leave the track.

Edited by - karter on 01 Jul 2019 18:59:10
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journeyman racer
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  20:04:14  Show Profile Send journeyman racer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Nope, you can definitely bring oval racing into it. It's the same act. In fact, it's easier to see because the geometry is different.

Leclerc went high, and stayed high before being driven off.

Verstappen went low then rode high. Then higher pushing Leclerc off.

No1 fan of James Courtney's ex-wife!
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Jam3s
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  20:09:48  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by journeyman racer

"Outbraked" is a nice way of saying he ****** up. Verstappen "passed" Leclerc without accounting for the inertia of his car (That's what the genuinely good drivers do). The racing on ovals analogy is a fair and accurate one.

The inside runner completely missing the apex and corralling the guy off track is not "racing".




I daresay he knew exactly what he was doing and always aimed to crowd Lec at the exit anyway, learning from the previous lap.
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journeyman racer
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  20:31:03  Show Profile Send journeyman racer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Yeah. But you're not supposed to be doing that. That is not racing

Leclerc could've turned in early to hit the apex (like what is considered normal), and Verstappen would've got done over because he wasn't ahead. It would've just been another banzai move that wouldn't have been made.

Whether he's climbing on kerbs and barging Sainz out of the way in Bahrain, or completely missing the apex and driving off innocent guys off track. He's a dirty campaigner. I suppose that's why people like him.

No1 fan of James Courtney's ex-wife!
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mikeamerica84
V8 Champion



USA
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Posted - 01 Jul 2019 :  22:36:05  Show Profile Send mikeamerica84 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
The sanctioning body HAD to let Max's pass stand. They couldn't afford the fan and media backlash if they penalised yet another driver by taking the win away from him (in such a short period of time since Montreal).

Max had politics on his side.

Now, had the Montreal fiasco NOT occurred, I think Leclerc would have the win.

The V8CFL - Without fantasy, life is simply life
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karter
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Posted - 02 Jul 2019 :  04:55:57  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by journeyman racer

Nope, you can definitely bring oval racing into it. It's the same act. In fact, it's easier to see because the geometry is different.

Leclerc went high, and stayed high before being driven off.

Verstappen went low then rode high. Then higher pushing Leclerc off.



Oval racing has banking. Hence the terms high and low. Cars often stay either high or low right round the corner.

On an unbanked racetrack the normal racing line is a wide entry, tight apex, wide exit. They're just not the same.
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mikeamerica84
V8 Champion



USA
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Posted - 02 Jul 2019 :  07:56:03  Show Profile Send mikeamerica84 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by journeyman racer

Nope, you can definitely bring oval racing into it. It's the same act. In fact, it's easier to see because the geometry is different.

Leclerc went high, and stayed high before being driven off.

Verstappen went low then rode high. Then higher pushing Leclerc off.



Oval racing has banking. Hence the terms high and low. Cars often stay either high or low right round the corner.

On an unbanked racetrack the normal racing line is a wide entry, tight apex, wide exit. They're just not the same.


What had that been a Supercars race? WOuld the pass stand? That would be a lot of hip and shoulder, as Crompo would say.

I think Max would have had to give the position back.

The V8CFL - Without fantasy, life is simply life
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skaifeman
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Australia
6911 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jul 2019 :  09:20:13  Show Profile Send skaifeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by mikeamerica84

quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by journeyman racer

Nope, you can definitely bring oval racing into it. It's the same act. In fact, it's easier to see because the geometry is different.

Leclerc went high, and stayed high before being driven off.

Verstappen went low then rode high. Then higher pushing Leclerc off.



Oval racing has banking. Hence the terms high and low. Cars often stay either high or low right round the corner.

On an unbanked racetrack the normal racing line is a wide entry, tight apex, wide exit. They're just not the same.


What had that been a Supercars race? WOuld the pass stand? That would be a lot of hip and shoulder, as Crompo would say.

I think Max would have had to give the position back.


We follow the B-pillar rule generally don't we? It would be fine.

@ Journeyman Racer - I don't think any of us are saying Max is a 'clean' campaigner, or even suggesting it was a fantastic move - but it was a move... and one that we've seen plenty of times.


"Fordís Bathurst winning bonus didnít even cover the cost of the after-party" - Allan Moffat, 1977

Edited by - skaifeman on 02 Jul 2019 10:13:49
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