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EgoFG
Fujitsu Driver



Australia
662 Posts
joined 16 Oct 08

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Posted - 27 May 2019 :  13:34:30  Show Profile Send EgoFG a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I reckon the Brand results are about the same as last year if you took out all T8 results
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Kytabu
First of the losers



Australia
2730 Posts
joined 31 Dec 08

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Posted - 28 May 2019 :  11:38:32  Show Profile  Visit Kytabu's Homepage Send Kytabu a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by EgoFG

I reckon the Brand results are about the same as last year if you took out all T8 results


2018 manufacturer numbers after six rounds with Triple Eight removed, and ignoring any real-life implications:
Pole positions
Ford   13
Holden  1

Front row starts
Ford   18
Holden  8
Nissan  2

Race wins
Ford   8
Holden 5
Nissan 1

Round wins
Ford   3
Holden 3

Race podiums
Ford   20
Holden 18
Nissan  4

Round podiums
Holden 10
Ford    6
Nissan  2


I also took the time to examine the extent of McLaughlin's and DJRTP's dominance so far this year. McLaughlin is the first driver since Skaife in 2002 to win races at each of the first six rounds and to have won 10 races in the same time (Skaife had 11 race wins after six rounds). No other driver has achieved either of these feats.

In contrast, across all of his dominant years, Whincup was never able to win a race at each of the first three rounds. He won races in the first two rounds in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014 and 2015, but never went on to win a race in round three. The fastest Whincup ever achieved 10 wins in a season was in 2009, when it took him 22 races and 12 events. 2014 was his fastest in terms of events, taking 10 race wins in the first 10 rounds, but that covered 29 races.

DJRTP have won 12 races from the 14 this year; the fastest Triple Eight got to 12 wins was after 21 races in 2010 and 2012. The got their 12th race win after eight rounds in 2014; DJRTP of course have done it in six.

Photography ByKye | Motorsport Photography ByKye
"I just plucked her in first, gave it some jandal, **** yeah!"


_Mvolvo
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abhibeckert
Formula Ford Driver



Australia
346 Posts
joined 10 Jan 18

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Posted - 29 May 2019 :  11:28:29  Show Profile  Visit abhibeckert's Homepage Send abhibeckert a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Kytabu

McLaughlin is the first driver since Skaife in 2002 to win races at each of the first six rounds and to have won 10 races in the same time (Skaife had 11 race wins after six rounds). No other driver has achieved either of these feats.

Skaife's wins weren't as dominating as Scotty Mac's have been and his losses were often well back in the mid pack, Scotty Mac has always been near the pointy end when he "lost" a race (usually in 2nd place behind a teammate with orders not to overtake).

We'll see how the rest of the season goes, but Skaife actually had a terrible second half in 2002. I seriously doubt Scotty Mac will go the rest of this year with only 5 podiums the way Skaife did in 2002.

Edited by - abhibeckert on 29 May 2019 11:30:26
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Kytabu
First of the losers



Australia
2730 Posts
joined 31 Dec 08

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Posted - 29 May 2019 :  12:03:48  Show Profile  Visit Kytabu's Homepage Send Kytabu a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert

quote:
Originally posted by Kytabu

McLaughlin is the first driver since Skaife in 2002 to win races at each of the first six rounds and to have won 10 races in the same time (Skaife had 11 race wins after six rounds). No other driver has achieved either of these feats.

Skaife's wins weren't as dominating as Scotty Mac's have been and his losses were often well back in the mid pack, Scotty Mac has always been near the pointy end when he "lost" a race (usually in 2nd place behind a teammate with orders not to overtake).


The only time Skaife was midpack in the first 14 races of 2002 was the reverse grid in Canberra. The remaining 13 races were 11 wins and two 2nds. Of course it went downhill in the 15th race that year. I wasn't trying to compare McLaughlin and Skaife, though, just pointing out that we haven't seen domination like this since 2002 (i.e. Triple Eight and Whincup never dominated a single season to this extent after six rounds).

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"I just plucked her in first, gave it some jandal, **** yeah!"


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HRTKLR
No.1 Ford Fan



Australia
9580 Posts
joined 20 Dec 02

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Posted - 29 May 2019 :  12:20:21  Show Profile Send HRTKLR a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
How about ZB 2019 v the worst year of the AU? Can you compare the two?
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abhibeckert
Formula Ford Driver



Australia
346 Posts
joined 10 Jan 18

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Posted - 29 May 2019 :  12:36:34  Show Profile  Visit abhibeckert's Homepage Send abhibeckert a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Kytabu

quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert

quote:
Originally posted by Kytabu

McLaughlin is the first driver since Skaife in 2002 to win races at each of the first six rounds and to have won 10 races in the same time (Skaife had 11 race wins after six rounds). No other driver has achieved either of these feats.

Skaife's wins weren't as dominating as Scotty Mac's have been and his losses were often well back in the mid pack, Scotty Mac has always been near the pointy end when he "lost" a race (usually in 2nd place behind a teammate with orders not to overtake).


The remaining 13 races were 11 wins and two 2nds.

I'm pretty sure you looked up the first half instead of the second half (Natsoft sorts them backwards remember).

These were Skaife's last 13 races in 2002 according to Natsoft:

Oran Park 1:   1st
Oran Park 2:   1st
Winton 1:      4th
Winton 2:      9th
Qld Raceway:   DNF
Bathurst:      1st
Surfers 1:     24th
Surfers 2:     DNF
Pukekohe 1:    1st
Pukekohe 2:    DNF
Pukekohe 3:    DNF
Sandown 1:     5th
Snadown 2:     2nd

Edited by - abhibeckert on 29 May 2019 12:41:25
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Kytabu
First of the losers



Australia
2730 Posts
joined 31 Dec 08

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Posted - 29 May 2019 :  13:25:24  Show Profile  Visit Kytabu's Homepage Send Kytabu a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I referenced the start of 2002 to make a point about McLaughlin's dominance. You said Skaife's losses in that timeframe were "often well back in the mid pack", which I refuted by saying he had 11 wins and two 2nds outside of the reverse grid race. I was never talking about the second half of 2002, as there is no 2019 data with which to compare.

And please, I know how NatSoft works.

quote:
Originally posted by HRTKLR

How about ZB 2019 v the worst year of the AU? Can you compare the two?


I can. I decided to include 1999 and 2002 for the AU. Remember to account for the difference in the number of qualifying sessions.
After six rounds
              AU99 AU02 ZB19
Races           16   16   14
Poles            3    2    2
Round wins       1    0    1
Race wins        1    1    1
Round podiums    5    5    6
Race podiums    15   11   13

Photography ByKye | Motorsport Photography ByKye
"I just plucked her in first, gave it some jandal, **** yeah!"


_Mvolvo

Edited by - Kytabu on 29 May 2019 13:44:32
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HRTKLR
No.1 Ford Fan



Australia
9580 Posts
joined 20 Dec 02

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Posted - 29 May 2019 :  15:40:59  Show Profile Send HRTKLR a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Kytabu

I referenced the start of 2002 to make a point about McLaughlin's dominance. You said Skaife's losses in that timeframe were "often well back in the mid pack", which I refuted by saying he had 11 wins and two 2nds outside of the reverse grid race. I was never talking about the second half of 2002, as there is no 2019 data with which to compare.

And please, I know how NatSoft works.

quote:
Originally posted by HRTKLR

How about ZB 2019 v the worst year of the AU? Can you compare the two?


I can. I decided to include 1999 and 2002 for the AU. Remember to account for the difference in the number of qualifying sessions.
After six rounds
              AU99 AU02 ZB19
Races           16   16   14
Poles            3    2    2
Round wins       1    0    1
Race wins        1    1    1
Round podiums    5    5    6
Race podiums    15   11   13


Thanks so much Kytabu for those numbers. Wow, AU was hopeless. We know ZB is t hopeless so itíll be interesting to see how ZBís numbers change over the remainder of the year.
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abhibeckert
Formula Ford Driver



Australia
346 Posts
joined 10 Jan 18

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Posted - 29 May 2019 :  16:23:06  Show Profile  Visit abhibeckert's Homepage Send abhibeckert a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Kytabu

I was never talking about the second half of 2002, as there is no 2019 data with which to compare.

Fair enough. I miss-understood your meaning.

quote:
Originally posted by Kytabu

I referenced the start of 2002 to make a point about McLaughlin's dominance. You said Skaife's losses in that timeframe were "often well back in the mid pack", which I refuted by saying he had 11 wins and two 2nds outside of the reverse grid race.

My theory on Scotty Mac being far more dominant than Skaife was from looking at the lap times.

Mark Skaife qualified on pole for half of the first six rounds and was, on average, 0.03 seconds off the pace. So in terms of car speed at least, he was about on par with the other lead drivers.

Scotty Mac has qualified on pole for 10 of 14 races and averaged 0.2 seconds ahead of the pace.

Edited by - abhibeckert on 29 May 2019 16:36:02
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REM
Team Manager



Australia
14371 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

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Posted - 31 May 2019 :  07:46:44  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Pretty sure Jess said on Trackside that the Shell team have the most 1-2 finishes in a season since 1989! Is this true and what is the record please? Google wonít be my friend in researching this....but I am a bit of a google Gumby

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.


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SportsExtra_Motorsport
V8 Champion



New Zealand
917 Posts
joined 29 Nov 08

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Posted - 31 May 2019 :  10:19:16  Show Profile  Visit SportsExtra_Motorsport's Homepage  Click to see SportsExtra_Motorsport's MSN Messenger address Send SportsExtra_Motorsport a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Kytabu

I referenced the start of 2002 to make a point about McLaughlin's dominance. You said Skaife's losses in that timeframe were "often well back in the mid pack", which I refuted by saying he had 11 wins and two 2nds outside of the reverse grid race. I was never talking about the second half of 2002, as there is no 2019 data with which to compare.

And please, I know how NatSoft works.

quote:
Originally posted by HRTKLR

How about ZB 2019 v the worst year of the AU? Can you compare the two?


I can. I decided to include 1999 and 2002 for the AU. Remember to account for the difference in the number of qualifying sessions.
After six rounds
              AU99 AU02 ZB19
Races           16   16   14
Poles            3    2    2
Round wins       1    0    1
Race wins        1    1    1
Round podiums    5    5    6
Race podiums    15   11   13




lets not forget by winning Bathurst in 2002 Skaife had won the championship - the rest of the year didn't even have to try!.

Penskes dominance is amazing they are certainly putting the rest to shame.

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Kytabu
First of the losers



Australia
2730 Posts
joined 31 Dec 08

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Posted - 31 May 2019 :  11:12:22  Show Profile  Visit Kytabu's Homepage Send Kytabu a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
The points system had much bigger gaps in the higher positions in 2002, though, and Skaife won the big points races at Adelaide and Canberra while his main rivals had poor results at one or both of those events. Under today's points system, he would only have had a 199-point lead heading into the final round at Sandown and secured the title at Race 1 there. His final margin would have been 257 points over Ambrose. DNFs, of which Skaife had five, were better balanced out by bulk winning that year, which is not the case now.

quote:
Originally posted by REM

Pretty sure Jess said on Trackside that the Shell team have the most 1-2 finishes in a season since 1989! Is this true and what is the record please? Google wonít be my friend in researching this....but I am a bit of a google Gumby


That's odd as DJR didn't actually have any 1-2 finishes in 1989, though they had five 1-3 finishes. She may have meant since 1988 when they had five 1-2s. She certainly meant most in a season for DJR, as even the Fox commentary team would know that HRT had many, many more when Skaife and Lowndes were there.

Teams with five or more 1-2 race finishes in a season:
HRT 13 1999 (Lowndes/Skaife)
HRT 11 1998 (Lowndes/Skaife)
888 11 2016 (Van Gisbergen/Whincup/Lowndes)
HRT  9 2000 (Skaife/Lowndes)
HRT  8 1996 (Lowndes/Brock)
888  7 2014 (Whincup/Lowndes)
GMS  6 1991 (Richards/Skaife)
888  6 2018 (Van Gisbergen/Whincup/Lowndes)
DJR  6 2019 (McLaughlin/Coulthard)
DJR  5 1988 (Johnson/Bowe)
GMS  5 1992 (Skaife/Richards)
HRT  5 1997 (Murphy/Brock)
HRT  5 2002 (Skaife/Bright)
888  5 2011 (Whincup/Lowndes)
888  5 2013 (Whincup/Lowndes)
PRA  5 2015 (Winterbottom/Mostert)

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"I just plucked her in first, gave it some jandal, **** yeah!"


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skaifeman
Team Manager



Australia
7140 Posts
joined 01 Aug 09

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Posted - 31 May 2019 :  11:38:41  Show Profile Send skaifeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
These are fantastic stats Ky! Well done!
Is everything still done on your own local database, or is there a web portal accessible?

I remember a few years ago you had a wiki type page running ('16 maybe?).


"Fordís Bathurst winning bonus didnít even cover the cost of the after-party" - Allan Moffat, 1977
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Fast by Ferracci
Team Manager



10424 Posts
joined 23 Sep 04

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Posted - 31 May 2019 :  12:05:04  Show Profile Send Fast by Ferracci a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert

quote:
Originally posted by Kytabu

I was never talking about the second half of 2002, as there is no 2019 data with which to compare.

Fair enough. I miss-understood your meaning.

quote:
Originally posted by Kytabu

I referenced the start of 2002 to make a point about McLaughlin's dominance. You said Skaife's losses in that timeframe were "often well back in the mid pack", which I refuted by saying he had 11 wins and two 2nds outside of the reverse grid race.

My theory on Scotty Mac being far more dominant than Skaife was from looking at the lap times.

Mark Skaife qualified on pole for half of the first six rounds and was, on average, 0.03 seconds off the pace. So in terms of car speed at least, he was about on par with the other lead drivers.

Scotty Mac has qualified on pole for 10 of 14 races and averaged 0.2 seconds ahead of the pace.



You can't compare qualifying stats because in 2002 there was only ever one qualifying session no matter how many races, progressive grids and only an overall weekend podium.

The only relevant stats you can compare 2019 results on is from 2009-onwards, 2008 and beforehand was deemed irrelevant by Supercars when they decided to change everything in 2009.
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Kytabu
First of the losers



Australia
2730 Posts
joined 31 Dec 08

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Posted - 31 May 2019 :  12:44:44  Show Profile  Visit Kytabu's Homepage Send Kytabu a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by skaifeman

These are fantastic stats Ky! Well done!
Is everything still done on your own local database, or is there a web portal accessible?

I remember a few years ago you had a wiki type page running ('16 maybe?).


Thanks man. I still have this page of records online. This week I recounted all round and race podiums and have updated those numbers, plus added a couple of relevant records.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kytabu/sandbox3

Everything else such as my season summaries are kept offline. I completed full summaries up to 1972 but haven't had the motivation to go any further.

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"I just plucked her in first, gave it some jandal, **** yeah!"


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