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Legendary Gerry
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Australia
22226 Posts
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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  08:19:15  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote




https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/supercars-makes-ballast-changes-for-ipswich/

REM
Team Manager



Australia
14224 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  08:37:03  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Are they just taking the urine now? What a farce!!

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.


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Sonic
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Australia
17196 Posts
joined 14 Nov 06

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  08:45:49  Show Profile Send Sonic a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
they just can't leave it alone can they... :(

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Trickyonne
Sex God



Vatican City
17526 Posts
joined 13 Apr 03

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  08:51:28  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Gotta admitt...I had a giggle when I read that.....Iím waiting to hear that they are bringing back the twin spring next

Ford 2018 champions
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bigem
A polar bear



Australia
15994 Posts
joined 22 Jun 04

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  08:52:18  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
How funny will it be if after Holden committed for 2 more years, Ford announce they are pulling the pin at the end of the season? Why bother changing the Nissan now, its 4 years too late And are they saying they got it wrong by removing the Holdens ballast and taking 9kg out of the Mustang, but replacing the composite beams with steel? Crankers!

New Commodore Hey! So you used your own money? Would you like to buy a used bridge?
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m4rf
Fujitsu Driver



601 Posts
joined 08 Mar 12

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  08:56:13  Show Profile Send m4rf a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
How long have we got left with the Altima. Too little to late for me.

To dare is to do.
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Jam3s
Team Manager


2769 Posts
joined 02 Mar 13

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  09:32:01  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Did anyone actually read the article?

There is NO difference to relative COG between cars. They have removed 6.8kg from both the ZB and 9kg from the Mustang and better incorporated the remaining Mustang ballast in a safer manner instead of the hose clamped lead method. Nissan has then had their lowered to match the change in COG of the ZB and Mustang. No one has lost or gained out of this, it's just tidying up the changes made earlier in the season.

The end result is all cars get their COG lowered slightly and a much tidier and safer solution for all.



Edited by - Jam3s on 08 Jul 2019 09:33:20
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Legendary Gerry
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Australia
22226 Posts
joined 19 Feb 07

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  10:00:31  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s

Did anyone actually read the article?

There is NO difference to relative COG between cars. They have removed 6.8kg from both the ZB and 9kg from the Mustang and better incorporated the remaining Mustang ballast in a safer manner instead of the hose clamped lead method. Nissan has then had their lowered to match the change in COG of the ZB and Mustang. No one has lost or gained out of this, it's just tidying up the changes made earlier in the season.

The end result is all cars get their COG lowered slightly and a much tidier and safer solution for all.






The trouble is they don't say how much weight they are adding to the Stang with the change from composite to steel. They only say how much they are taking off.
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Jam3s
Team Manager


2769 Posts
joined 02 Mar 13

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  10:14:49  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s

Did anyone actually read the article?

There is NO difference to relative COG between cars. They have removed 6.8kg from both the ZB and 9kg from the Mustang and better incorporated the remaining Mustang ballast in a safer manner instead of the hose clamped lead method. Nissan has then had their lowered to match the change in COG of the ZB and Mustang. No one has lost or gained out of this, it's just tidying up the changes made earlier in the season.

The end result is all cars get their COG lowered slightly and a much tidier and safer solution for all.






The trouble is they don't say how much weight they are adding to the Stang with the change from composite to steel. They only say how much they are taking off.

Let's break it down.

2nd sentence of the article.

quote:
The Supercars Commission has ratified a plan to redistribute ballast in each vehicle, to lower the CoG of all models, while maintaining the current CoG parity.


5th sentence.

quote:
while 9kg of ballast will be removed from the roof and composite parts will be replaced by steel roof beams in the Mustang.


Now a bit of logic would tell me that the added weight into the roof is going to equal the amount of the remaining ballast after the 9kg they have removed. It's the only way they are able to maintain the same COG relative to the other cars.

Or are we now just looking for anything to try and be the victims?
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abhibeckert
Formula Ford Driver



Australia
263 Posts
joined 10 Jan 18

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  10:32:32  Show Profile  Visit abhibeckert's Homepage Send abhibeckert a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
So basically the earlier parity adjustment matched the ZB and Mustang to the Altima - because the Altima had the highest CoG in the field.

However the reason the Altima's CoG was so high was because it already had ballast on top of the engine as part of a years old parity adjustment (to bring it in line with the old Commodore/Falcon back when they used stock road car components).

What they've done this time makes perfect sense - the new baseline CoG has been reached by moving the Altima's ballast as low as possible while still keeping the cars equal.

They've also made the Mustang cheaper and probably also stronger/safer by switching to steel instead of carbon fibre for parts of the roof (safer because steel bends in a crash ó composites crack instead).

Seems like a sensible change to me - except I don't understand why they're doing it now. Could have waited for the off season when the Altima is (presumably) leaving the category. Or they could even have waited for the Gen3 supercar - that would have surely been the best option especially for mid pack cars who are already struggling to understand their car setup without making unnecessary mid-season adjustments.

Edited by - abhibeckert on 08 Jul 2019 10:36:19
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skaifeman
Team Manager



Australia
6907 Posts
joined 01 Aug 09

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  10:35:23  Show Profile Send skaifeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s

Did anyone actually read the article?

There is NO difference to relative COG between cars. They have removed 6.8kg from both the ZB and 9kg from the Mustang and better incorporated the remaining Mustang ballast in a safer manner instead of the hose clamped lead method. Nissan has then had their lowered to match the change in COG of the ZB and Mustang. No one has lost or gained out of this, it's just tidying up the changes made earlier in the season.

The end result is all cars get their COG lowered slightly and a much tidier and safer solution for all.





The clamped weight was a little agricultural. I'd do a better job on a hillclimb car... let alone the 'premiere' Australian category.
If we want to split hairs, it probably is a minuscule advantage to the ZB, who now have 100% accurate data from last years car, CoG the same.
Whereas, the Stang and Altima now have another iteration of CoG data to compete with.

Although it didn't really do much to the Stang in the first place, so it probably won't add up to much now.

...and to add to your victims comment... DJR have always had the 'hardgoing' sob story... just ask Moff!

--

OT makes a good point below.


"Fordís Bathurst winning bonus didnít even cover the cost of the after-party" - Allan Moffat, 1977

Edited by - skaifeman on 08 Jul 2019 11:36:06
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oldtimer
Team Manager



4028 Posts
joined 19 Jun 11

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  10:52:30  Show Profile Send oldtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
"If we want to split hairs, it probably is a minuscule advantage to the ZB, who now have 100% accurate data from last years car, CoG the same."

But different suspension, which nullifies much of that data.

I would prefer that they reduce the racing weight of all the cars as they all carry ballast.
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abhibeckert
Formula Ford Driver



Australia
263 Posts
joined 10 Jan 18

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  11:52:23  Show Profile  Visit abhibeckert's Homepage Send abhibeckert a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by skaifeman

If we want to split hairs, it probably is a minuscule advantage to the ZB

If we want to split hairs, it's still advantage to the Mustang who still have the most ballast - ballast they can move around to tune the car's weight distribution (they can't move it higher or lower, but they can move it front to rear and side to side).
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Legendary Gerry
Moderator



Australia
22226 Posts
joined 19 Feb 07

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  12:22:37  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s

quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s

Did anyone actually read the article?

There is NO difference to relative COG between cars. They have removed 6.8kg from both the ZB and 9kg from the Mustang and better incorporated the remaining Mustang ballast in a safer manner instead of the hose clamped lead method. Nissan has then had their lowered to match the change in COG of the ZB and Mustang. No one has lost or gained out of this, it's just tidying up the changes made earlier in the season.

The end result is all cars get their COG lowered slightly and a much tidier and safer solution for all.






The trouble is they don't say how much weight they are adding to the Stang with the change from composite to steel. They only say how much they are taking off.

Let's break it down.

2nd sentence of the article.

quote:
The Supercars Commission has ratified a plan to redistribute ballast in each vehicle, to lower the CoG of all models, while maintaining the current CoG parity.


5th sentence.

quote:
while 9kg of ballast will be removed from the roof and composite parts will be replaced by steel roof beams in the Mustang.


Now a bit of logic would tell me that the added weight into the roof is going to equal the amount of the remaining ballast after the 9kg they have removed. It's the only way they are able to maintain the same COG relative to the other cars.

Or are we now just looking for anything to try and be the victims?



Nothing to do with "victims" just the usual half-arsed story from Supercars.
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Legendary Gerry
Moderator



Australia
22226 Posts
joined 19 Feb 07

 offline

Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  12:26:10  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
The only positive reason I can see for making the changes now is from a safety point of view.

It doesn't matter how good the strapping is holding the lead ballast in (particularly higher up), in a big prang there's always the chance that that strapping can fail.
Don't really want blocks of lead flying around in the car as well. eg. rollover.

Edited by - Legendary Gerry on 08 Jul 2019 12:27:03
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Jam3s
Team Manager


2769 Posts
joined 02 Mar 13

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Posted - 08 Jul 2019 :  12:29:22  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s

quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s

Did anyone actually read the article?

There is NO difference to relative COG between cars. They have removed 6.8kg from both the ZB and 9kg from the Mustang and better incorporated the remaining Mustang ballast in a safer manner instead of the hose clamped lead method. Nissan has then had their lowered to match the change in COG of the ZB and Mustang. No one has lost or gained out of this, it's just tidying up the changes made earlier in the season.

The end result is all cars get their COG lowered slightly and a much tidier and safer solution for all.






The trouble is they don't say how much weight they are adding to the Stang with the change from composite to steel. They only say how much they are taking off.

Let's break it down.

2nd sentence of the article.

quote:
The Supercars Commission has ratified a plan to redistribute ballast in each vehicle, to lower the CoG of all models, while maintaining the current CoG parity.


5th sentence.

quote:
while 9kg of ballast will be removed from the roof and composite parts will be replaced by steel roof beams in the Mustang.


Now a bit of logic would tell me that the added weight into the roof is going to equal the amount of the remaining ballast after the 9kg they have removed. It's the only way they are able to maintain the same COG relative to the other cars.

Or are we now just looking for anything to try and be the victims?



Nothing to do with "victims" just the usual half-arsed story from Supercars.

the article couldn't be any clearer.
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