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Bartlett
Pit Crew


144 Posts
joined 18 Sep 18

 online

Posted - 29 Jul 2019 :  19:46:22  Show Profile Send Bartlett a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Great, another parity change through Centre of Gravity. Removing weight in the bottom of number 17 by lightening Scotty’s wallet. Hope they redistribute that weight somewhere.
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EgoFG
Fujitsu Driver



Australia
645 Posts
joined 16 Oct 08

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Posted - 30 Jul 2019 :  10:52:48  Show Profile Send EgoFG a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
My Opinion:

1) This change benefited Holden by taking them back to last year's car
2) Benefited 888 the most because they could no sort the top heavy holden (whereas Erebus did)

888 could not set up to compensate for the roof ballast - they were incapable of doing it. The car has been designed around the previous balance, perhaps 888 had some proprietary info, and became dependent on it.
This most recent change has reverted their car to last years car, but with aero benefits over last year, and no multi-rate springs.
And the result is that 888 are now stronger than Erebus, and threatening DJRTP
This also destabilised the Fords more because they do not have any data as yet on this balance - but the Holden guys do.
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Kytabu
First of the losers



Australia
2698 Posts
joined 31 Dec 08

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Posted - 30 Jul 2019 :  11:19:47  Show Profile  Visit Kytabu's Homepage Send Kytabu a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I'd wait to see results from more than one event before drawing any conclusions. Triple Eight may have just found a really good setup which worked for Whincup on Saturday and for SVG on Sunday.

McLaughlin was really struggling with his car in Sunday's race (multiple times he said he had no rear end) yet SVG, who said his car felt really good in race trim, still could not get close enough to attempt a pass.

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abhibeckert
Formula Ford Driver



Australia
263 Posts
joined 10 Jan 18

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Posted - 30 Jul 2019 :  13:21:20  Show Profile  Visit abhibeckert's Homepage Send abhibeckert a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by EgoFG

My Opinion:

1) This change benefited Holden by taking them back to last year's car

They still don't have last year's suspension.

quote:
2) Benefited 888 the most because they could no sort the top heavy holden (whereas Erebus did)

What benefited Triple 8 was doing a test day at the track just before the race. Erebus does their testing in Winton.

quote:
This also destabilised the Fords more because they do not have any data as yet on this balance - but the Holden guys do.

DJRTP just did their day the same as Triple 8.

Edited by - abhibeckert on 30 Jul 2019 13:22:35
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EgoFG
Fujitsu Driver



Australia
645 Posts
joined 16 Oct 08

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Posted - 30 Jul 2019 :  16:00:08  Show Profile Send EgoFG a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert...



Sorry Abhi, I did not state this clearly.

For all Holden teams one negative change, since last year, was taken away - more top heavy then last year - so now they only have to deal with the spring differences. They also get an Aero benefit over last year. My opinion is that the holden is closer to last year, so potentially they can draw on their data from last year. Certainly it is of more value than before the changes.
You point on testing is also a good one that may explain Erebus not being on the game last weekend
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
2517 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

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Posted - 30 Jul 2019 :  17:51:47  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by AlbertM

Looks like nobody read my post. The changes are not to bring the cars to parity, it's to bring the championship race down to the wire. The subtle changes made are done to slow a run away leader that just happens to drive a Mustang. It's all about commercial interests. That's why they toss around $10K fines for paper posters on the podium.

The Nissan got a lower COG, the Holden COG hasn't changed but now have a little more lip on the spoilers, the Mustang got 20Kg moved to the roof. Now anyone that wants to argue that moving 20Kg to the roof of a race car makes no difference, I have a bridge to sell you.

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505


Apparently this is how the cars will run for the remainder of the season but we will see, there are a few people trying to justify their roles at Supercars and with that comes unnecessary bull****.

That was what Ford Performance said 2 changes ago.



Makes sense regarding Supercars wanting the championship closer, who will watch or attend if it's wrapped up now.
Heard it outside of Ford and also heard of a big sponsor lawsuit but see what happens.

Championship was run and won by round 3 so should of just let it go to the end and learn from it. Ein my opinion either way some sooks would of walked but at least they could have limited it.
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oldtimer
Team Manager



4023 Posts
joined 19 Jun 11

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Posted - 30 Jul 2019 :  18:09:04  Show Profile Send oldtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I wonder if the Nissan ballast was a consideration in the decision.

At a recent race meeting actually on FTA, Kelly made a point about the ballast blocks in the Nissan and showed that they were mounted high in the engine bay.

Anyway, it was lowered.
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AlbertM
Crackpot



12526 Posts
joined 15 Jan 03

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Posted - 30 Jul 2019 :  18:35:57  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by REM

Seems to me that the Parc Ferme rule change has helped T8 more than the lead removal, now that everybody uses a race set up, they qualify quite well....the lack of qualifying speed has been their biggest issue....the rule change has been quite 'fortuitous' for them...



Not knowing how much time it takes to change between a qualifying setup to a race setup. What is to stop using a Qual setup in Q3, belt out a blinder, come in, swap to a race setup before the sesion is over?

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
2517 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

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Posted - 30 Jul 2019 :  19:06:52  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by AlbertM

quote:
Originally posted by REM

Seems to me that the Parc Ferme rule change has helped T8 more than the lead removal, now that everybody uses a race set up, they qualify quite well....the lack of qualifying speed has been their biggest issue....the rule change has been quite 'fortuitous' for them...



Not knowing how much time it takes to change between a qualifying setup to a race setup. What is to stop using a Qual setup in Q3, belt out a blinder, come in, swap to a race setup before the sesion is over?



Should just give them 15 min practice th3n qualifying just their out lap, 2 consecutive flying laps and a cool down then lock it out of the teams reach.

Edited by - troy01505 on 30 Jul 2019 19:08:22
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JD
V8 Champion


1050 Posts
joined 09 Mar 05

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Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  00:26:14  Show Profile  Visit JD's Homepage Send JD a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s

sure knowing the exact number would be nice but it doesn't really matter as they state there is no change to cog parity. If you beleive supercars are lying and there is a change to the COG parity then that's on you, go your hardest.

quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer

I wonder if the Nissan ballast was a consideration in the decision.
At a recent race meeting actually on FTA, Kelly made a point about the ballast blocks in the Nissan and showed that they were mounted high in the engine bay.
Anyway, it was lowered.
A bit of both OT as Supercars seem to have previously screwed up or dare I say it lied but won't admit it or it's still wrong and no one seems to have noticed.

Previously, we were assured cog was now spot on and the ZB and Stang now had the same cog as the Nissan and this was achieved by adding 6.8kg to the ZB's roof and 27/8kg to the Mustangs roof.

Note its not 7.0kg but precisly .2 less being 6.8kg as that was the exact amount of ballast required to make the ZB's cog the same as the Nissan and Supercars told all and sundry accordingly.

Now we are told after making the decision to get some of this weight out of the roof areas and after CAD info, Supercars have altered it again with the same assurance it's spot on.

Really Supercars, which cog attempt is or was correct !!!! The Nissan has now had its ballast blocks moved much lower to the sump so its former cog has significantly changed.

Using the ZB as the example, the former exact 6.8kg has now been removed from its roof and surprise surprise the ZB's cog apparently still matches the Nissans cog even though that has changed from when the initial 6.8kg was determined as being the exact amount required for the ZB and the Mustang will be the same.

So whose been telling porkies !!!!
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oldtimer
Team Manager



4023 Posts
joined 19 Jun 11

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Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  08:44:33  Show Profile Send oldtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I would think that SC based the initial COG measurements on the Nissan and probably had a good match.

Then they re-did the calculations based on the Commodore and then had a good match too and Nissan also had a benefit.

I suspect that the second try was prompted by the rather ugly, and potentially unsafe, lead wrapping in the Mustangs. Using the genuine steel bits to hold the roof up was probably a good idea, anyway, as the apparently unusable real Mustang bits were suddenly found to be usable.

The aesthetics are better and all three brands got a lower COG than effort one.
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Jam3s
Team Manager


2769 Posts
joined 02 Mar 13

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Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  09:33:53  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by JD

quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s

sure knowing the exact number would be nice but it doesn't really matter as they state there is no change to cog parity. If you beleive supercars are lying and there is a change to the COG parity then that's on you, go your hardest.

quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer

I wonder if the Nissan ballast was a consideration in the decision.
At a recent race meeting actually on FTA, Kelly made a point about the ballast blocks in the Nissan and showed that they were mounted high in the engine bay.
Anyway, it was lowered.
A bit of both OT as Supercars seem to have previously screwed up or dare I say it lied but won't admit it or it's still wrong and no one seems to have noticed.

Previously, we were assured cog was now spot on and the ZB and Stang now had the same cog as the Nissan and this was achieved by adding 6.8kg to the ZB's roof and 27/8kg to the Mustangs roof.

Note its not 7.0kg but precisly .2 less being 6.8kg as that was the exact amount of ballast required to make the ZB's cog the same as the Nissan and Supercars told all and sundry accordingly.

Now we are told after making the decision to get some of this weight out of the roof areas and after CAD info, Supercars have altered it again with the same assurance it's spot on.

Really Supercars, which cog attempt is or was correct !!!! The Nissan has now had its ballast blocks moved much lower to the sump so its former cog has significantly changed.

Using the ZB as the example, the former exact 6.8kg has now been removed from its roof and surprise surprise the ZB's cog apparently still matches the Nissans cog even though that has changed from when the initial 6.8kg was determined as being the exact amount required for the ZB and the Mustang will be the same.

So whose been telling porkies !!!!

tjey said from the very beginning that cog parity was the same, but everyone's was lowered. There's nothing more to it. If you think they're lying, send an angry letter.

Clearly the Ford teams do not as they stated they were happy with the changes. So they must just be stupid then if they didn't notice they had been screwed
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Legendary Gerry
Moderator



Australia
22221 Posts
joined 19 Feb 07

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Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  10:41:34  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
The Ford teams are happy because the ballast is in a much safer position in the case of a big shunt.
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Jam3s
Team Manager


2769 Posts
joined 02 Mar 13

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Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  11:26:04  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

The Ford teams are happy because the ballast is in a much safer position in the case of a big shunt.

and because cog parity was not changed from before this recent modification to positioning,as made extremely clear over and over again.

But some people will not rest until they've convinced themselves that they are again a victim that has been lied to at the hands of the evil supercars administration.


Edited by - Jam3s on 31 Jul 2019 11:28:40
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JD
V8 Champion


1050 Posts
joined 09 Mar 05

 offline

Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  11:39:02  Show Profile  Visit JD's Homepage Send JD a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s
they said from the very beginning that cog parity was the same, but everyone's was lowered. There's nothing more to it. If you think they're lying, send an angry letter.

Clearly the Ford teams do not as they stated they were happy with the changes. So they must just be stupid then if they didn't notice they had been screwed
Get with the program mate. This has nothing to do with Ford or Holden getting screwed or where ballist is now located.

Clearly, Supercars previous statement you refer to was wrong as if the current cog is now definite parity matched to the Nissan then the former cog was not.

Supercars were wrong but won't admit to it. I guess we'll have to assume the latest cog is now definite parity but by using a forklift means I still have doubts

Edited by - JD on 31 Jul 2019 11:43:45
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