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Jam3s
Team Manager


2769 Posts
joined 02 Mar 13

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Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  13:35:57  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by JD

quote:
Originally posted by Jam3s
they said from the very beginning that cog parity was the same, but everyone's was lowered. There's nothing more to it. If you think they're lying, send an angry letter.

Clearly the Ford teams do not as they stated they were happy with the changes. So they must just be stupid then if they didn't notice they had been screwed
Get with the program mate. This has nothing to do with Ford or Holden getting screwed or where ballist is now located.

Clearly, Supercars previous statement you refer to was wrong as if the current cog is now definite parity matched to the Nissan then the former cog was not.

Supercars were wrong but won't admit to it. I guess we'll have to assume the latest cog is now definite parity but by using a forklift means I still have doubts

you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Go re read the supercars articles about it all and rethink, dumbass.
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JD
V8 Champion


1050 Posts
joined 09 Mar 05

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Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  15:48:11  Show Profile  Visit JD's Homepage Send JD a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Really.

So using the ZB as the example, previously it took exactly 6.8kg to be moved to its roof to match the Nissans cog so parity was established.

The Nissan now has its ballist moved from the upper portion of its engine to sump level. The ZB's same exact 6.8kg is now removed from the roof area yet its cog still matches the Nissan.

So if this latter cog adjustment is now correct by definition the former must have been incorrect. cah-PEESH
.
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oldtimer
Team Manager



4023 Posts
joined 19 Jun 11

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Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  16:54:22  Show Profile Send oldtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by JD

Really.

So using the ZB as the example, previously it took exactly 6.8kg to be moved to its roof to match the Nissans cog so parity was established.

The Nissan now has its ballist moved from the upper portion of its engine to sump level. The ZB's same exact 6.8kg is now removed from the roof area yet its cog still matches the Nissan.

So if this latter cog adjustment is now correct by definition the former must have been incorrect. cah-PEESH
.




All 3 cars had matching COG.

All 3 cars now have matching COG, but lower.

cah-PEECH!
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JD
V8 Champion


1050 Posts
joined 09 Mar 05

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Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  18:05:22  Show Profile  Visit JD's Homepage Send JD a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
If you believe that then its your choice and no skin of my nose.
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djr18fan
Team Manager



New Zealand
1728 Posts
joined 06 Jul 06

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Posted - 31 Jul 2019 :  18:23:37  Show Profile Send djr18fan a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by JD

Really.

So using the ZB as the example, previously it took exactly 6.8kg to be moved to its roof to match the Nissans cog so parity was established.

The Nissan now has its ballist moved from the upper portion of its engine to sump level. The ZB's same exact 6.8kg is now removed from the roof area yet its cog still matches the Nissan.

So if this latter cog adjustment is now correct by definition the former must have been incorrect. cah-PEESH
.




3 cars had the same cog.
All 3 cars have had ballast moved lowering cog by the same amount.
3 cars still have the same, lower, cog.


_Mford
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
2517 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

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Posted - 01 Aug 2019 :  07:14:37  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Surely some of you have got to be taking the piss, yeah?

No one can be that stupid that they can not understand at least the last change. No conspiracy just simple subtraction.
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7 teen 8 teen
Transporter Driver



Australia
36 Posts
joined 20 Feb 13

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Posted - 01 Aug 2019 :  08:54:59  Show Profile Send 7 teen 8 teen a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
So Troy, moving 6.8kg from top of Nissan engine to sump is the same COG as moving 6.8kg from roof of ZB to the floor of ZB!

I think not.

Edited by - 7 teen 8 teen on 01 Aug 2019 08:56:00
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djr18fan
Team Manager



New Zealand
1728 Posts
joined 06 Jul 06

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Posted - 01 Aug 2019 :  10:52:12  Show Profile Send djr18fan a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by 7 teen 8 teen

So Troy, moving 6.8kg from top of Nissan engine to sump is the same COG as moving 6.8kg from roof of ZB to the floor of ZB!

I think not.



I've never read anywhere that the Nissan has had 6.8kg of engine ballast moved.
Google reveals the Volvo alloy engine had 20kg's of ballast at the top of the engine. The Nissan probably has a similar amount of ballast.
Moving 6.8 from roof to floor might be the same as moving 20kg from top to bottom of engine?

Do you really think the Kelly's would quiet if they'd been shafted as obviously as you claim?

_Mford
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7 teen 8 teen
Transporter Driver



Australia
36 Posts
joined 20 Feb 13

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Posted - 01 Aug 2019 :  11:31:53  Show Profile Send 7 teen 8 teen a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Ok so maybe I had the amount weight added to the Nissan engine wrong.

So letís say it is 20kg, my point was that by moving the engine weight (20kg) from top of heads to engine sump, you would end up with a different COG balance compared to moving the weight from ZB roof to the ZB floor.

The system is flawed without a COG test being re-done
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AlbertM
Crackpot



12526 Posts
joined 15 Jan 03

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Posted - 04 Aug 2019 :  12:16:59  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Funny as hell.

Prior to Adelaide COG was even on the radar. There was no rule for it and no testing, that is until DJR/P caught everyone napping.

Nissans engine ballast had nothing to do with COG, it was placed to raise the front axle weight to the minimum.

You can all argue till the cows come home. It doesn't dismiss the fact that out of all the changes the Mustang had its legally designed COG raised and wings clipped. And Nissan has lower COG and Holden has improved aero.

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford
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joe5619
Team Manager



Australia
4452 Posts
joined 01 Mar 03

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Posted - 04 Aug 2019 :  15:43:47  Show Profile Send joe5619 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by AlbertM

Funny as hell.

Prior to Adelaide COG was even on the radar. There was no rule for it and no testing, that is until DJR/P caught everyone napping.

Nissans engine ballast had nothing to do with COG, it was placed to raise the front axle weight to the minimum.

You can all argue till the cows come home. It doesn't dismiss the fact that out of all the changes the Mustang had its legally designed COG raised and wings clipped. And Nissan has lower COG and Holden has improved aero.

Prior to Adelaide we never have a 3 door coupe on the grid!!
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Trickyonne
Sex God



Vatican City
17525 Posts
joined 13 Apr 03

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Posted - 04 Aug 2019 :  16:24:57  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by joe5619

quote:
Originally posted by AlbertM

Funny as hell.

Prior to Adelaide COG was even on the radar. There was no rule for it and no testing, that is until DJR/P caught everyone napping.

Nissans engine ballast had nothing to do with COG, it was placed to raise the front axle weight to the minimum.

You can all argue till the cows come home. It doesn't dismiss the fact that out of all the changes the Mustang had its legally designed COG raised and wings clipped. And Nissan has lower COG and Holden has improved aero.

Prior to Adelaide we never have a 3 door coupe on the grid!!



So you would think that would have been sorted prior to Adelaide then..as you say a new car...kinda like the ZB, never had a hatch race before

Ford 2018 champions
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HRTKLR
No.1 Ford Fan



Australia
9569 Posts
joined 20 Dec 02

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Posted - 04 Aug 2019 :  16:59:15  Show Profile Send HRTKLR a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
.

Edited by - HRTKLR on 04 Aug 2019 16:59:38
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oldtimer
Team Manager



4023 Posts
joined 19 Jun 11

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Posted - 04 Aug 2019 :  23:58:09  Show Profile Send oldtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I like the way some people expect a problem to be solved even before there is a known problem.

Surely the homologation process was completed under previous staff supervision.

Consider that Supercars have now hired two technical supervision staff who are better equipped, knowledge wise, to deal with any issues,

Their brief is surely to make corrections and eliminate anomalies and detect flaws in the rules and to suggest and activate and enforce suitable changes.

On an ongoing basis.
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abhibeckert
Formula Ford Driver



Australia
263 Posts
joined 10 Jan 18

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Posted - 05 Aug 2019 :  07:19:39  Show Profile  Visit abhibeckert's Homepage Send abhibeckert a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by AlbertM

Nissans engine ballast had nothing to do with COG, it was placed to raise the front axle weight to the minimum.

Nissan/Volvo/Mercedes all have/had aluminium engines.

They all started with ballast in the sump to reach the 200kg minimum engine weight. This helped Volvo get 10 pole positions in itís first year - it had the lightest engine at only 170kg (before ballast).

It was later moved to the top of the engine specifically to raise the COG of the Volvo. Nissan and Mercedes had to do the same though they werenít targeted by the rule change.

Edited by - abhibeckert on 05 Aug 2019 07:21:57
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