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bigcol
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  11:35:19  Show Profile Send bigcol a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is Religion relevant in a modern Society?

I say no and it should go the way of the Dodo.
The Catholic church has around 30 billion dollars worth of real estate in Australia. Yet thousands of families are living in cars and tents and how many homeless shelters have they built lately? It's near impossible to find out how much money they make because of their non profit status but do you honestly believe they are a non profit when the Catholics own 30 billion dollars of real estate. The churches are just money grubbers looking out for the next free ride in government funding to their private schools and anything else they can get their grubby hands on, while kids going through public or state schools are disadvantaged by lack of funding.

Then we have the human cost. Thousands of young kids molested and raped by peadophiles masquerading as men of the cloth. When the truth comes out they're dirty disgusting rock spiders who prey on young children. The death penalty is too good for these vile creatures.
When the institutional abuse was major headlines, all George Pell was interested in doing was limiting the damage to the church by putting a cap on the payouts. Well Pell even if he isn't a disgusting rock spider should rot in gaol for the protection of Gerard Rissdale who Pell moved from congregation to congregation to congregation. Time and time again after it became known that Rissdale was a disgusting pedo. So rather than reporting Rissdale to the Police Pell covered it up.

Now this isn't just isolated to the Catholic church. The founder of Hillsongs Brain Houston also was disgusting child rapist. Yep the same Happy Clappy type of Church Scott Morrison goes too.
Once again it wasn't just the Catholics.
some pretty damning figures of the pedo's in the Church

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/feb/06/4444-victims-extent-of-abuse-in-catholic-church-in-australia-revealed

Churches while making billions of tax free money also put their hand out for funding of their schools while Public and State schools get shafted.
Overall, the independent school sector receives $8.2 billion dollars to educate only 14% of the population.
Yet the majority of our kids aren't getting what they deserve and the funding is far from equal or fair. One good point about this is that kids in Public and State schools aren't having something from biblical times about a sky fairy rammed down their throats.

Churches and Religion are also out of step with modern society because of their attitude towards war. Religious fanatics are still killing and displacing millions of people around the world with their demented ideology. It's bad enough they are blood sucking parasites when it comes to funding but then it costs us the taxpayer again when we have to re-home millions and or go to war

Then we have the Climate Change mantra that our sky fairy will always look after the world and he will fix it. So in the meantime we can pollute the crap out of everything because a magical figure in the sky will save us. Here's a tip. He never saved millions from the Plague. He never saved the Indonesians or the Japanese from Tsunamis and he didn't save people in San Francisco from the earthquakes and he hasn't saved some from these bushfires

Churches and religions are nothing more than control and too make money. They should be taxed like every other business

Churches are irrelevant to modern society. The good they do is far outweighed by the lives they have destroyed and continue to destroy.
The government funding to their schools should be inline with Public and state school funding and that is all they should receive from the taxpayer
They should be taxed at 30 cents in the dollar like other businesses.
Our constitution also states separation from Church and State.
So why do we have the Lords Prayer before Parliament starts and why do we have a government that has been infiltrated by fanatical God botherers.

ONLY LITTLE BOYZ WEAR BOWTIES

Trickyonne
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  12:16:10  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Yep I agree with a lot of what you say Col mate.

Yes the church should be the light Of the world, yet so often man and his evil ways have distorted it in many ways.
Iam not catholic so canít speak on their behalf but I am concerned as you say col about the billions of dollars they have collected and then you have the prosperity preachers...Joel olsteen ect....IMO they are in error.
On the flip side....in the USA there is a push weíre if a church doesnít allow same sex marriage in their church they will loose their tax free stratus....so good news col you may get your wish....so what will that mean ?

Anglicare
Salvation Army
Lutheran care
Center care
Ect ect
May not be able to operate so the state governments will need to step up.....good luck with that !!!!!....I have a bit to do with Anglicare and child protection in SA and the difference between pay for people performing the same job is eye watering.

Climate change and the church....interesting...as Christian we are called to good stewards of the earth so we should do what we can to protect the earth. IMO that can also be distorted and can go to extremes. Then many Christians also believe as scripture says that we will experience floods,earth quakes,droughts and fires in the last days so itís something which we should in fact be expecting ( I donít personally follow that doctrine) .


Hillsong....not a fan of this church either, but to clear something up it wasnít brain Houston but his dad frank who was the child abuser...but I believe Brian didnít report the abuse....not exactly sure how that played out TBH.

It wasnít all that long ago I would be beating my drum with you col mate but these days I know longer hold those views because of what god has done on my life...but I understand exactly what you are thinking. But what are you recommending col ....all religions to be made illegal like we see in many communist countries ?....what hope would you give a mum and dad as they look at their dead 3 year old twins ???...trust me on this....they need hope.

And then.....what would you implement as the basis of our laws ?

For me...my birth dad was a president of a 1% motorcycle club who was a career criminal thug. My step dad was also very violent and my child hood would be best described as abusive. Despite that, I had people in my life who didnít give up on me but it wasnít until I was in my mid 30s before I became a Christian.

If you knew me 10 years ago and now you wouldnít believe iam the same person....

But to answer the question...is religion relevant today ?
No....I donít believe it necessarily is.....but a relationship with your saviour most certainly is

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Edited by - Trickyonne on 17 Nov 2019 13:05:33
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Zac
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  18:31:59  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Is religion relevant in a modern society? In 21st century Australia, religion is becoming less relevant or irrelevant to more and more of us, while at the same time, the numbers of non-Christians are growing.

Australia's first census was in 1911, when 95.9 claimed to be Christian, 0.8% claimed that they belonged to other religions, and 3.3% either claimed no religion or did not state any religion. In 1996, Christians made up 70.9% of the population, people of non-Christian religions made up 3.5%, and those who claimed no religion made up the remaining 16.6%. In the 2016 census, 52% of Australians claimed to be various kinds of Christians, and 8% claimed they belonged to other religions, and 40% claimed no religion. Australia is becoming non-religious at a fast rate, while non-Christian religions are also growing.

I didn't see Col suggesting that religion be made illegal, nor do I see any movement anywhere to make religion in Australia illegal. Religion is just becoming less relevant to Australians generally. That's just the way it is. With the increasing bad news coming out of various religions in Australia, various religions can blame themselves, but it was happening regardless. IF religion was to sink below 50% of the population, nothing dire would happen. Australia doesn't need religion to make laws or to have major influence on politics or the population in general. As religion becomes less relevant, those issues such as the contribution made by religions to education and charities will sort themselves out. Most people who send their children to religion-based private schools aren't religious, and enrol their children in them for a variety of non-religious reasons, and while those schools take a load off government schools, if religion continues to plummet, they will merge or survive in the education system. Christian charities will also survive by becoming non-religious or merging. Besides, while T1 listed some great Christian-based charities doing great humanitarian work, there are just as many great non-Christian or other non-religious ones, such as the Red Cross, UNICEF, CARE Australia, the Smith Family, Oxfam, Amnesty International, Medicins sans Frontieres, etc. - and many hundreds of others supporting many causes - and IMHO, the work charities do would be done better without a religious message.

I am an atheist, but I support freedom of religion, and accept the right of people to believe the many strange, if not incredible things that those religions are based upon.

Back to the original question: My answer is that religion is still relevant, but becoming less so at a very fast rate - and Australia is almost certainly the better for it.



Edited by - Zac on 17 Nov 2019 19:13:42
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Trickyonne
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  18:57:49  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Is religion relevant ?....
https://www.racismnoway.com.au/about-racism/australias-cultural-diversity/diversity-of-religion-and-spiritual-beliefs/

Clearly to the majority of Aussieís it is very relevant .... glad to see you believe in freedom of religion zaccy, as many people donít
Izzy
Margaret Court spring to mind

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/how-religious-voters-lost-faith-in-labor/11146850
Religion cost bill his job too

Here is an interesting article
https://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article/constitutionally-australia-is-a-religious-country

Zaccy on the charity thing...I strongly disagree. I attend a small church of around 40 members, we donate to local and international missions as do all the local churches in my area. We are not talking about small change but combined itís in the hundreds of thousands every year and thatís just in 5 or so churches.

I think more and more people are searching for the meaning of life, and the new age movement is testament to that .... and I believe if you, like me really look at things like evolution it raises more questions than answers

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Edited by - Trickyonne on 17 Nov 2019 19:27:58
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CP
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  19:34:35  Show Profile  Visit CP's Homepage Send CP a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trickyonne
I think more and more people are searching for the meaning of life, and the new age movement is testament to that .... and I believe if you, like me really look at things like evolution it raises more questions than answers



I'm not religious by any means and only really listened to it in scripture at school.

If that's what you wan't to follow, by all means do so, just don't force it on the non believers.

I'm not quite sold on the divine creation belief though. If everything was created through immaculate design by a higher being, then how do you design something like a platypus?

Seriously?

I'd like to know your answer.
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Trickyonne
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  19:56:00  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
whats wrong with ole mate platypus?

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Zac
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  20:20:58  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Ole mate platypus must have just sprung to mind, like Margaret Court and Izzy did.

Here's a question that sprung to my mind: If everything was created through immaculate design by a higher being - then who created that higher being? That one could be just the being for the New Age movement to follow. There are again, for some people when they have more questions than answers, they end up with religion.

Edited by - Zac on 17 Nov 2019 20:24:46
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Legendary Gerry
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  20:30:27  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trickyonne

Is religion relevant ?....
https://www.racismnoway.com.au/about-racism/australias-cultural-diversity/diversity-of-religion-and-spiritual-beliefs/

Clearly to the majority of Aussieís it is very relevant .... glad to see you believe in freedom of religion zaccy, as many people donít
Izzy
Margaret Court spring to mind

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/how-religious-voters-lost-faith-in-labor/11146850
Religion cost bill his job too

Here is an interesting article
https://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article/constitutionally-australia-is-a-religious-country

Zaccy on the charity thing...I strongly disagree. I attend a small church of around 40 members, we donate to local and international missions as do all the local churches in my area. We are not talking about small change but combined itís in the hundreds of thousands every year and thatís just in 5 or so churches.

I think more and more people are searching for the meaning of life, and the new age movement is testament to that .... and I believe if you, like me really look at things like evolution it raises more questions than answers



Only just, as Zac showed from official figures 52% said they were religious but that was 3 years ago. If you look at the rates it's quite possibly below that 50% now.
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Trickyonne
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  20:54:31  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Legendary Gerry

quote:
Originally posted by Trickyonne

Is religion relevant ?....
https://www.racismnoway.com.au/about-racism/australias-cultural-diversity/diversity-of-religion-and-spiritual-beliefs/

Clearly to the majority of Aussieís it is very relevant .... glad to see you believe in freedom of religion zaccy, as many people donít
Izzy
Margaret Court spring to mind

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/how-religious-voters-lost-faith-in-labor/11146850
Religion cost bill his job too

Here is an interesting article
https://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article/constitutionally-australia-is-a-religious-country

Zaccy on the charity thing...I strongly disagree. I attend a small church of around 40 members, we donate to local and international missions as do all the local churches in my area. We are not talking about small change but combined itís in the hundreds of thousands every year and thatís just in 5 or so churches.

I think more and more people are searching for the meaning of life, and the new age movement is testament to that .... and I believe if you, like me really look at things like evolution it raises more questions than answers



Only just, as Zac showed from official figures 52% said they were religious but that was 3 years ago. If you look at the rates it's quite possibly below that 50% now.



Letís say 30% for argument sake.....thatís a lot of people !!!!

Good question zaccy....the bible answers that question.... he is the beginning

Or we could follow evolution ?....nothing created everything....science itself disproves that !!!! But we are going off topic I believe

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Edited by - Trickyonne on 17 Nov 2019 20:56:36
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AlbertM
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  22:09:09  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Religion has two basic sides. Those that use it to control, oppress, profit. Then there are those that use it for charity, comfort, healing. I see religion as a stone. Man can use it to build or to destroy. It should not be forced on anyone and the most faithful find it on their own.

I have my own theories on God. One that he is not a god as such. Just a person that knows science better than the rest of us and create worlds and life with the matter of the universe. A belief I hold is "As man is now, God once was; as God is now man may become".

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
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Trickyonne
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  22:22:59  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by AlbertM

Religion has two basic sides. Those that use it to control, oppress, profit. Then there are those that use it for charity, comfort, healing. I see religion as a stone. Man can use it to build or to destroy. It should not be forced on anyone and the most faithful find it on their own.

I have my own theories on God. One that he is not a god as such. Just a person that knows science better than the rest of us and create worlds and life with the matter of the universe. A belief I hold is "As man is now, God once was; as God is now man may become".



Interesting theory alby mate.
So two questions....what is the meaning of it ?
And what happens when you die ?

Not loaded questions just interested in your idea

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AlbertM
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Posted - 17 Nov 2019 :  22:34:12  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
1: I refer you to Monty Python https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asOFi1W228M
2: Can't tell you, I have not experienced death, nor do I know anyone that has come back from being dead.

And we're OT.

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford

Edited by - AlbertM on 17 Nov 2019 22:41:11
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Zac
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Posted - 18 Nov 2019 :  07:41:34  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Thank you Albert for 'The Meaning of Life' link. The Galaxy Song and its line about "this amazing and expanding universe" is an example of why there is no need to make God and religion the answer to questions for which we have (or had) no answer. Early civilisations used to worship a Sun God, but that was when man only knew of one sun. We now know there are over 200,000,000,000 suns in the Milky Way alone, so that idea died.

On Col's question about whether religion is relevant in a modern society, here's two links from Monty Python's 'Life of Brian':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QereR0CViMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka9mfZbTFbk

Do we really still need to follow some god or religion just because it is an answer to questions we can't or couldn't answer? Besides, there's so many of them. I don't think we do, but it's still an entrenched idea even as we gradually get over it.

Tricky, what bit of what I said do you strongly disagree with here?
quote:
Originally posted by Trickyonne

Zaccy on the charity thing...I strongly disagree. I attend a small church of around 40 members, we donate to local and international missions as do all the local churches in my area. We are not talking about small change but combined itís in the hundreds of thousands every year and thatís just in 5 or so churches.
I said that Christian-based charities do great humanitarian work. No matter how big or small they may be or how much good they do, there are just as many or more organisations doing great work without religion. Sporting and social clubs, schools, all kinds of places raise money and support all kinds of places doing good work. Then there's Rotary, Apex, Lions, etc. Then there are the organisations actually doing the work: Surf Life Saving, Rural Fire Service, RSPCA - way too many to list.

Christian-based charities do good work, but IMO they would do better without doing it in the name of religion. They are still relevant, but less so these days. Church and state are becoming more separate. The idea of our laws being based on the Bible is gradually disappearing. The traditions of swearing on the Bible in court, having prayers in parliament etc are just that - traditions. It's only a minority of people who fervently believe those things. They are just two examples of religion becoming less relevant.

So: Is religion relevant in a modern society? Yes, it still is, but rapidly becoming less so.

PS: I just heard on the ABC 7.45 news. Israel Folau is blaming same-sex marriage and abortion laws for the bushfires around NSW and Queensland. That's how some religious people view things.

Edited by - Zac on 18 Nov 2019 08:01:57
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REM
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Posted - 18 Nov 2019 :  07:58:13  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Zac

T


PS: I just listened to the headlines on the ABC 7.45 news. Israel Folau is blaming same-sex marriage and abortion laws on the bushfires around NSW and Queensland. That's how some religious people view things.



So Izzy's right wing, vindictive god strikes back at the most conservative part of the nation that probably voted against those issues....? Sounds like a deity to put your trust and hope in.... Yeah...ok????

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.



Edited by - REM on 18 Nov 2019 07:59:07
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Trickyonne
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Posted - 18 Nov 2019 :  09:13:27  Show Profile Send Trickyonne a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by REM

quote:
Originally posted by Zac

T


PS: I just listened to the headlines on the ABC 7.45 news. Israel Folau is blaming same-sex marriage and abortion laws on the bushfires around NSW and Queensland. That's how some religious people view things.



So Izzy's right wing, vindictive god strikes back at the most conservative part of the nation that probably voted against those issues....? Sounds like a deity to put your trust and hope in.... Yeah...ok????



it is an interesting angle Izzy has taken...not my view but he should be free to view scripture they way he wants too

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Zac
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Posted - 18 Nov 2019 :  09:17:07  Show Profile Send Zac a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
That's another good reason why religion is becoming less relevant. Religious people (not only Christians) interpreting scripture the way they want to.

Perhaps we should worship the shoe. You can't go too far wrong misinterpreting the sayings of the shoe. Or maybe we should worship the knife that cuts shoes in half. I've always wanted one of those. That knife must be greater than the shoe.

Edited by - Zac on 18 Nov 2019 09:21:16
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