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 Less areo the key?
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Rampaging Monkey
Team Manager


1852 Posts
joined 18 Feb 06

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Posted - 07 May 2019 :  17:23:41  Show Profile  Visit Rampaging Monkey's Homepage Send Rampaging Monkey a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter


Have a look at old late 70's group c racing. They used to get sideways all the time and nobody was terrified their tyres would suffer from "too much deg".



In the 70's, they were likely racing on crossply tyres rather than radial ones. Crossply tyres work better at large slip angles.

I believe radial racing tyres came in to fashion during the early 1980's.

Edited by - Rampaging Monkey on 07 May 2019 17:24:24
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abhibeckert
Pit Crew



Australia
176 Posts
joined 10 Jan 18

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Posted - 07 May 2019 :  21:23:37  Show Profile  Visit abhibeckert's Homepage Send abhibeckert a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
An aero adjustment would mean new aero bits on every car - and likely more mid season adjustments to fix parity issues. I donít want that - leave the regulations how it is and stick to small tweaks.

More mechanical grip would make it even harder to get temperature into the tyres. If anything I think less grip would be good - make the cars harder to drive and more exciting.

The only thing Iíd change is the weight and engines - make all the cars lighter and with lower CoG. And adjust the engine rules to have similar performance from a more modern (and cheaper) engine design. KRE says some of the engines in Supercars are 20 years old - thatís crazy.

Edited by - abhibeckert on 07 May 2019 21:26:50
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karter
Team Manager


11580 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 07 May 2019 :  21:57:49  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Less grip makes the cars easier to drive because they're slower. Almost anyone can drive an HQ Holdrn flat out because flat out for one of those is about walking speed. Almost nobody can drive an F1 car flat out. Hardly anyone can even get brakes and tyres warm.

If having more grip makes it harder for some drivers to get tyre temp, that's a good thing. Seperates the real fast drivers from the not so fast.

Edited by - karter on 07 May 2019 22:01:05
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Jam3s
Team Manager


2643 Posts
joined 02 Mar 13

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Posted - 08 May 2019 :  07:29:13  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
And also spreads out the field. So the question is whether you would want more cars closer together overtaking often or only a few close together but more spectacular with sideways moments. There's a zero chance of the series going that way anyway so not sure why it's even being discussed.

Edited by - Jam3s on 08 May 2019 07:30:19
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Bloopy
V8 Champion



New Zealand
1106 Posts
joined 20 Oct 11

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Posted - 13 May 2019 :  20:38:35  Show Profile  Send Bloopy an ICQ Message  Send Bloopy a Yahoo! Message Send Bloopy a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Rampaging Monkey

They can follow other cars just fine, the issue with following is mainly just overheating.


The overheating is often brought up during the coverage as a reason why faster drivers/cars can't make a pass when they catch up to another car. When fans say they want 'close racing', do they want to see cars stuck in a train, or can the overheating be solved somehow?
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karter
Team Manager


11580 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 13 May 2019 :  20:51:02  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Getting rid of the wings would help with overheating too, cars wouldn't be dragging as much air with them.
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mikeamerica84
V8 Champion



USA
1048 Posts
joined 11 Jan 08

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Posted - 13 May 2019 :  23:31:30  Show Profile Send mikeamerica84 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
From a fan standpoint, when has aero ever improved any type of racing?

The V8CFL - Without fantasy, life is simply life
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joe5619
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Australia
4387 Posts
joined 01 Mar 03

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Posted - 14 May 2019 :  14:59:50  Show Profile Send joe5619 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Yes please, less aero would be a good thing!!

Morris was saying that since COTF the teams have something like 30% more downforce then from the start of COTF because teams are smart & are getting more downforce outside of tested aero.. We need less down force & better aero testing before the session starts in 2020 please!!
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abhibeckert
Pit Crew



Australia
176 Posts
joined 10 Jan 18

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Posted - 14 May 2019 :  15:29:59  Show Profile  Visit abhibeckert's Homepage Send abhibeckert a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by mikeamerica84

From a fan standpoint, when has aero ever improved any type of racing?


Every car naturally has baseline aero numbers, chiefly drag and downforce.

The exact numbers are different for every road car... and those numbers generally aren't suitable for racing (aero doesn't do much at city driving speeds and there are no sharp corners in the 110 zone of a motorway - it's all about reducing fuel consumption).

It is necessary to modify the car's aero for racing at the very least to achieve parity between different models, but also to tune the load of the car between the front/rear. And we all want the cars going fast over the top of the mountain - aero helps there.

So yes, I think aero does improve racing. But it's also capable of harming racing if you get it wrong. I'm not convinced our cars have too much aero at the moment, but I suppose they might.

But to me all of this is a distraction from the real issue, which is a lack of proper aero testing during homologation. I don't think there should be any changes to aero unless that is fixed first.

Edited by - abhibeckert on 14 May 2019 15:31:48
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djr18fan
Team Manager



New Zealand
1579 Posts
joined 06 Jul 06

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Posted - 14 May 2019 :  17:16:48  Show Profile Send djr18fan a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert

quote:
Originally posted by mikeamerica84

From a fan standpoint, when has aero ever improved any type of racing?


Every car naturally has baseline aero numbers, chiefly drag and downforce.

The exact numbers are different for every road car... and those numbers generally aren't suitable for racing (aero doesn't do much at city driving speeds and there are no sharp corners in the 110 zone of a motorway - it's all about reducing fuel consumption).

It is necessary to modify the car's aero for racing at the very least to achieve parity between different models, but also to tune the load of the car between the front/rear. And we all want the cars going fast over the top of the mountain - aero helps there.

So yes, I think aero does improve racing. But it's also capable of harming racing if you get it wrong. I'm not convinced our cars have too much aero at the moment, but I suppose they might.

But to me all of this is a distraction from the real issue, which is a lack of proper aero testing during homologation. I don't think there should be any changes to aero unless that is fixed first.



Agree 100%

_Mford
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murph_fan51
Team Manager



New Zealand
8013 Posts
joined 13 Dec 02

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Posted - 18 May 2019 :  07:28:15  Show Profile  Visit murph_fan51's Homepage  Send murph_fan51 a Yahoo! Message Send murph_fan51 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by REM

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/05/06/supercars-teams-discussing-push-to-reduce-aero/ Things look like changing...



The teams may want it reduced but do the casual fans?
What would they think when the cars show up with half the rear wing size?

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karter
Team Manager


11580 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 18 May 2019 :  09:33:11  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by djr18fan

quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert

quote:
Originally posted by mikeamerica84

From a fan standpoint, when has aero ever improved any type of racing?


Every car naturally has baseline aero numbers, chiefly drag and downforce.

The exact numbers are different for every road car... and those numbers generally aren't suitable for racing (aero doesn't do much at city driving speeds and there are no sharp corners in the 110 zone of a motorway - it's all about reducing fuel consumption).

It is necessary to modify the car's aero for racing at the very least to achieve parity between different models, but also to tune the load of the car between the front/rear. And we all want the cars going fast over the top of the mountain - aero helps there.

So yes, I think aero does improve racing. But it's also capable of harming racing if you get it wrong. I'm not convinced our cars have too much aero at the moment, but I suppose they might.

But to me all of this is a distraction from the real issue, which is a lack of proper aero testing during homologation. I don't think there should be any changes to aero unless that is fixed first.



Agree 100%



So now you're NOT in favour of the reductions to the Mustang's aero package?
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djr18fan
Team Manager



New Zealand
1579 Posts
joined 06 Jul 06

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Posted - 18 May 2019 :  09:47:00  Show Profile Send djr18fan a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by djr18fan

quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert

quote:
Originally posted by mikeamerica84

From a fan standpoint, when has aero ever improved any type of racing?


Every car naturally has baseline aero numbers, chiefly drag and downforce.

The exact numbers are different for every road car... and those numbers generally aren't suitable for racing (aero doesn't do much at city driving speeds and there are no sharp corners in the 110 zone of a motorway - it's all about reducing fuel consumption).

It is necessary to modify the car's aero for racing at the very least to achieve parity between different models, but also to tune the load of the car between the front/rear. And we all want the cars going fast over the top of the mountain - aero helps there.

So yes, I think aero does improve racing. But it's also capable of harming racing if you get it wrong. I'm not convinced our cars have too much aero at the moment, but I suppose they might.

But to me all of this is a distraction from the real issue, which is a lack of proper aero testing during homologation. I don't think there should be any changes to aero unless that is fixed first.



Agree 100%



So now you're NOT in favour of the reductions to the Mustang's aero package?



How do you arrive at that conclusion?

_Mford
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Jam3s
Team Manager


2643 Posts
joined 02 Mar 13

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Posted - 18 May 2019 :  17:17:38  Show Profile Send Jam3s a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by djr18fan

quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by djr18fan

quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert

quote:
Originally posted by mikeamerica84

From a fan standpoint, when has aero ever improved any type of racing?


Every car naturally has baseline aero numbers, chiefly drag and downforce.

The exact numbers are different for every road car... and those numbers generally aren't suitable for racing (aero doesn't do much at city driving speeds and there are no sharp corners in the 110 zone of a motorway - it's all about reducing fuel consumption).

It is necessary to modify the car's aero for racing at the very least to achieve parity between different models, but also to tune the load of the car between the front/rear. And we all want the cars going fast over the top of the mountain - aero helps there.

So yes, I think aero does improve racing. But it's also capable of harming racing if you get it wrong. I'm not convinced our cars have too much aero at the moment, but I suppose they might.

But to me all of this is a distraction from the real issue, which is a lack of proper aero testing during homologation. I don't think there should be any changes to aero unless that is fixed first.



Agree 100%



So now you're NOT in favour of the reductions to the Mustang's aero package?



How do you arrive at that conclusion?

His final sentence. Maybe 90% would have been more accurate.
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karter
Team Manager


11580 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 18 May 2019 :  21:13:24  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by djr18fan

quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by djr18fan

quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert

quote:
Originally posted by mikeamerica84

From a fan standpoint, when has aero ever improved any type of racing?


Every car naturally has baseline aero numbers, chiefly drag and downforce.

The exact numbers are different for every road car... and those numbers generally aren't suitable for racing (aero doesn't do much at city driving speeds and there are no sharp corners in the 110 zone of a motorway - it's all about reducing fuel consumption).

It is necessary to modify the car's aero for racing at the very least to achieve parity between different models, but also to tune the load of the car between the front/rear. And we all want the cars going fast over the top of the mountain - aero helps there.

So yes, I think aero does improve racing. But it's also capable of harming racing if you get it wrong. I'm not convinced our cars have too much aero at the moment, but I suppose they might.

But to me all of this is a distraction from the real issue, which is a lack of proper aero testing during homologation. I don't think there should be any changes to aero unless that is fixed first.



Agree 100%



So now you're NOT in favour of the reductions to the Mustang's aero package?



How do you arrive at that conclusion?



Might be an idea to read 100% of a post if you're going to agree 100% with it. Particularly the last couple of sentences.
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