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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
2996 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  07:30:36  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bigem

After the unproffessional bull**** Ford was treated to by Supercars this year, BMW will not come anywhere near this circus act! No other manufafturer will, and with Holden dropping 48% in sales for November, how long until they are history?



Is that an inside word or opinion?

Ryan Story has said on many occasions the team knew this was all going to happen and he agreed on enforcer and the dude that it痴 in the best interest of ALL team owners that parity is equal amongst all brands.

BMW may be the team that takes the sport into future, no one gives a crap about Ford and Holden anymore. Its mostly Mercs, BMWs or a 300c that people are moving on to from their precious RWD V8s the police now have 300s and BMWs so everyone is going to want a BMW ex-chaser/racecar! It now makes more sense then ever to enter the top category and showcase their product especially with pull to sway the category in the direction they need it to head.

Holdens demise will have little to no effect on the sport. If the name disappears they値l simply rebrand with a bow tie and enter a suitable car, they値l never leave the sport.
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AlbertM
Crackpot



12913 Posts
joined 15 Jan 03

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  15:20:29  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Yes, it is in the best interest that parity be equal among all brands. Problem was it was never achieved. Merc, Volvo and Nissan were left out in the cold, and when Ford did step up they were slapped down.

Should BMW enter, they look forward to being left behind or if they are successful, clipped.

And you're twisting what Ryan Story said. Yes they knew that Mustang was going to get a trim, but that was during the VCAT testing prior to the season start.

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford
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Futura Coupe
Transporter Driver




Australia
57 Posts
joined 19 Jun 11

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  16:17:18  Show Profile Send Futura Coupe a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by AlbertM

Yes, it is in the best interest that parity be equal among all brands. Problem was it was never achieved. Merc, Volvo and Nissan were left out in the cold, and when Ford did step up they were slapped down.

Should BMW enter, they look forward to being left behind or if they are successful, clipped.

And you're twisting what Ryan Story said. Yes they knew that Mustang was going to get a trim, but that was during the VCAT testing prior to the season start.



Well said!
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Kieron302
Team Manager


Australia
6327 Posts
joined 14 May 03

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  16:31:47  Show Profile Send Kieron302 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by troy01505
BMW may be the team that takes the sport into future, no one gives a crap about Ford and Holden anymore. Its mostly Mercs, BMWs or a 300c that people are moving on to from their precious RWD V8s the police now have 300s and BMWs so everyone is going to want a BMW ex-chaser/racecar! It now makes more sense then ever to enter the top category and showcase their product especially with pull to sway the category in the direction they need it to head.



Hmm, i'd suggest Ford fans have moved to Mustangs, wouldn't be surprised if ex Holden V8 buyers have moved to them neither.

quote:

Holdens demise will have little to no effect on the sport. If the name disappears they値l simply rebrand with a bow tie and enter a suitable car, they値l never leave the sport.



Seems like you have inside info at GM?

GM wanted Holden out of motorsport. A few employees in Holden reduced $$ spent on motorsport and convinced GM to continue, this is why Holden passed the ZB development costs to T8. I believe those Holden employees no longer work there.

If Holden goes, the Commodore is almost certainly dead and I seriously doubt they will replace it with another large car. Camaro has been shelved from 2022 and no concrete plans exist to resurrect it, what would they race?

There's no question, Holden failing sales has to be seen as a Threat to SC's.


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billybanana
Fujitsu Driver



Australia
707 Posts
joined 09 Nov 05

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  18:30:19  Show Profile Send billybanana a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Holden are finished. IMO they won't make the grid for th Gen 3 regs come 2022.
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REM
Team Manager



Australia
14348 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  18:45:28  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by bigem

After the unproffessional bull**** Ford was treated to by Supercars this year, BMW will not come anywhere near this circus act! No other manufafturer will, and with Holden dropping 48% in sales for November, how long until they are history?



Is that an inside word or opinion?

Ryan Story has said on many occasions the team knew this was all going to happen and he agreed on enforcer and the dude that it痴 in the best interest of ALL team owners that parity is equal amongst all brands.

BMW may be the team that takes the sport into future, no one gives a crap about Ford and Holden anymore. Its mostly Mercs, BMWs or a 300c that people are moving on to from their precious RWD V8s the police now have 300s and BMWs so everyone is going to want a BMW ex-chaser/racecar! It now makes more sense then ever to enter the top category and showcase their product especially with pull to sway the category in the direction they need it to head.

Holdens demise will have little to no effect on the sport. If the name disappears they値l simply rebrand with a bow tie and enter a suitable car, they値l never leave the sport.

Sales figures don't support Holden and Ford buyers moving into BMW's, Mercs and 300s'.....https://www.caradvice.com.au/805288/ford-ranger-4x4-outsells-toyota-hilux-4x4/

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.


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abhibeckert
Formula Ford Driver



Australia
338 Posts
joined 10 Jan 18

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  18:47:29  Show Profile  Visit abhibeckert's Homepage Send abhibeckert a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Kieron302

Hmm, i'd suggest Ford fans have moved to Mustangs, wouldn't be surprised if ex Holden V8 buyers have moved to them neither.


In the good old days - the commodore and falcon combined to sell around 300,000 cars per year.

The Mustang is nowhere near selling well enough for people to have 杜oved to that car. It痴 too expensive and too impractical with only two doors.

I guess I知 part of the problem - used to drive a falcon, now drive a dual cab navara.

Edited by - abhibeckert on 04 Dec 2019 18:50:04
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
2996 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  21:08:02  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by REM

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by bigem

After the unproffessional bull**** Ford was treated to by Supercars this year, BMW will not come anywhere near this circus act! No other manufafturer will, and with Holden dropping 48% in sales for November, how long until they are history?



Is that an inside word or opinion?

Ryan Story has said on many occasions the team knew this was all going to happen and he agreed on enforcer and the dude that it痴 in the best interest of ALL team owners that parity is equal amongst all brands.

BMW may be the team that takes the sport into future, no one gives a crap about Ford and Holden anymore. Its mostly Mercs, BMWs or a 300c that people are moving on to from their precious RWD V8s the police now have 300s and BMWs so everyone is going to want a BMW ex-chaser/racecar! It now makes more sense then ever to enter the top category and showcase their product especially with pull to sway the category in the direction they need it to head.

Holdens demise will have little to no effect on the sport. If the name disappears they値l simply rebrand with a bow tie and enter a suitable car, they値l never leave the sport.

Sales figures don't support Holden and Ford buyers moving into BMW's, Mercs and 300s'.....https://www.caradvice.com.au/805288/ford-ranger-4x4-outsells-toyota-hilux-4x4/



Yeah the market is down but people still upgrade or buy just not as many and not Holdens. You don稚 think the actual people that swapped their upgraded and tuned GTS or Clubbys with rangers and hiluxes to flog around tracks and drag do you?

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AlbertM
Crackpot



12913 Posts
joined 15 Jan 03

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  21:09:09  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Don't think Kieron meant that Ford fans have literally moved to buying Mustangs. They just see it as the hero car of the brand.

Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford
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REM
Team Manager



Australia
14348 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  21:19:15  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by REM

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by bigem

After the unproffessional bull**** Ford was treated to by Supercars this year, BMW will not come anywhere near this circus act! No other manufafturer will, and with Holden dropping 48% in sales for November, how long until they are history?



Is that an inside word or opinion?

Ryan Story has said on many occasions the team knew this was all going to happen and he agreed on enforcer and the dude that it痴 in the best interest of ALL team owners that parity is equal amongst all brands.

BMW may be the team that takes the sport into future, no one gives a crap about Ford and Holden anymore. Its mostly Mercs, BMWs or a 300c that people are moving on to from their precious RWD V8s the police now have 300s and BMWs so everyone is going to want a BMW ex-chaser/racecar! It now makes more sense then ever to enter the top category and showcase their product especially with pull to sway the category in the direction they need it to head.

Holdens demise will have little to no effect on the sport. If the name disappears they値l simply rebrand with a bow tie and enter a suitable car, they値l never leave the sport.

Sales figures don't support Holden and Ford buyers moving into BMW's, Mercs and 300s'.....https://www.caradvice.com.au/805288/ford-ranger-4x4-outsells-toyota-hilux-4x4/



Yeah the market is down but people still upgrade or buy just not as many and not Holdens. You don稚 think the actual people that swapped their upgraded and tuned GTS or Clubbys with rangers and hiluxes to flog around tracks and drag do you?





No, but most people I know who once had a XR6 or SV6, now have a dual cab Ranger, or Klugger, or X-trail....or Hi Lux...

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.


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bigem
A polar bear



Australia
16094 Posts
joined 22 Jun 04

 offline

Posted - 04 Dec 2019 :  23:50:39  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by bigem

After the unproffessional bull**** Ford was treated to by Supercars this year, BMW will not come anywhere near this circus act! No other manufafturer will, and with Holden dropping 48% in sales for November, how long until they are history?



Is that an inside word or opinion?

Ryan Story has said on many occasions the team knew this was all going to happen and he agreed on enforcer and the dude that it痴 in the best interest of ALL team owners that parity is equal amongst all brands.

BMW may be the team that takes the sport into future, no one gives a crap about Ford and Holden anymore. Its mostly Mercs, BMWs or a 300c that people are moving on to from their precious RWD V8s the police now have 300s and BMWs so everyone is going to want a BMW ex-chaser/racecar! It now makes more sense then ever to enter the top category and showcase their product especially with pull to sway the category in the direction they need it to head.

Holdens demise will have little to no effect on the sport. If the name disappears they値l simply rebrand with a bow tie and enter a suitable car, they値l never leave the sport.



It's an observation backed by the Ford faithful.

Why would BMW subject itself to the ineptitude of Supercars mismanagement to just have their car handicapped out of contention, a repeat of what has happened with the Mustang since NZ?

Also, congratulations to Holden for finally getting into the top ten!

Yep, they have hit a home run with ZB, less than 10 car sales a day, they are done!

New Commodore Hey! So you used your own money? Would you like to buy a used bridge?
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
2996 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

 offline

Posted - 05 Dec 2019 :  08:29:47  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bigem

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by bigem

After the unproffessional bull**** Ford was treated to by Supercars this year, BMW will not come anywhere near this circus act! No other manufafturer will, and with Holden dropping 48% in sales for November, how long until they are history?



Is that an inside word or opinion?

Ryan Story has said on many occasions the team knew this was all going to happen and he agreed on enforcer and the dude that it痴 in the best interest of ALL team owners that parity is equal amongst all brands.

BMW may be the team that takes the sport into future, no one gives a crap about Ford and Holden anymore. Its mostly Mercs, BMWs or a 300c that people are moving on to from their precious RWD V8s the police now have 300s and BMWs so everyone is going to want a BMW ex-chaser/racecar! It now makes more sense then ever to enter the top category and showcase their product especially with pull to sway the category in the direction they need it to head.

Holdens demise will have little to no effect on the sport. If the name disappears they値l simply rebrand with a bow tie and enter a suitable car, they値l never leave the sport.



It's an observation backed by the Ford faithful.

Why would BMW subject itself to the ineptitude of Supercars mismanagement to just have their car handicapped out of contention, a repeat of what has happened with the Mustang since NZ?

Also, congratulations to Holden for finally getting into the top ten!

Yep, they have hit a home run with ZB, less than 10 car sales a day, they are done!




Correction, observation backed by one of Fords faithful.

Why? Because BMW want an even playing field so like Nissan and Ford including their team owners they understand the changes were necessary for the sport and teams to survive.

Holden have always been in the top 10 in this sport, not sure where you have been.

No one, not even the Holden faithful or Holden dealership owners wanted the ZB to replace anything, especially the V8 RWDs. It is no surprise at all they are not selling so not sure why you think highlighting that would upset anyone. As I stated above if the Holden name dies which a name is all it has been for sometime now we will see bow tie badged cars and a better line up so trust me Holden fans are rooting for the demise more then you blokes.
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WarrenK
Transporter Driver



Australia
37 Posts
joined 20 Feb 13

 offline

Posted - 05 Dec 2019 :  10:26:19  Show Profile Send WarrenK a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by troy01505
As I stated above if the Holden name dies which a name is all it has been for sometime now we will see bow tie badged cars



If the Holden name dies, it will mean that GM have withdrawn from Australia like they have done in Europe and a couple of other countries. So there will be no bow tie badged cars sold by GM in Australia.

Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat with experience every time.
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skaifeman
Team Manager



Australia
7107 Posts
joined 01 Aug 09

 offline

Posted - 05 Dec 2019 :  10:38:48  Show Profile Send skaifeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Kieron302

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505
Holdens demise will have little to no effect on the sport. If the name disappears they値l simply rebrand with a bow tie and enter a suitable car, they値l never leave the sport.



Seems like you have inside info at GM?

GM wanted Holden out of motorsport. A few employees in Holden reduced $$ spent on motorsport and convinced GM to continue, this is why Holden passed the ZB development costs to T8. I believe those Holden employees no longer work there.

If Holden goes, the Commodore is almost certainly dead and I seriously doubt they will replace it with another large car. Camaro has been shelved from 2022 and no concrete plans exist to resurrect it, what would they race?

There's no question, Holden failing sales has to be seen as a Threat to SC's.



The man who pushed Holden to stay on with Supercars is now the man who took over the top job:
https://autoaction.com.au/2019/12/03/holdens-racing-future

No denying they looked like wanting out though, but they're still in the hands of a motorsport supporter - for the time being.
My question is, what else has Holden got going for it? Motorsport is its only tie to the 'real' Holden of yesteryear - would it be good to lose that link?
(Much like when they announced closing the manufacturing plant, people stopped buying Astra's too - because it wasn't Australian... it's all perception. Motorsport may be upholding that 'historic' perception, even if only a little bit).

quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert

quote:
Originally posted by Kieron302

Hmm, i'd suggest Ford fans have moved to Mustangs, wouldn't be surprised if ex Holden V8 buyers have moved to them neither.


The Mustang is nowhere near selling well enough for people to have 杜oved to that car. It痴 too expensive and too impractical with only two doors.



Impractical, maybe, but overpriced? It's competition is 1/3 of the cost more (at a quick guess), it's also selling well worldwide.

quote:
Originally posted by AlbertM

Don't think Kieron meant that Ford fans have literally moved to buying Mustangs. They just see it as the hero car of the brand.


Which is why Nissan were in the sport - not to sell the Altima, but promote their range with the Supercars target market mainly buying 4x4's.

Mustang does the same. People walk into the dealership to look at one and walk out with a Ranger or Focus.
The Ford marketing strategy has been seriously on point when they foresaw the death of the Falcon.

quote:
Originally posted by billybanana

Holden are finished. IMO they won't make the grid for th Gen 3 regs come 2022.


This hits home, and is very real.

quote:
Originally posted by WarrenK

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505
As I stated above if the Holden name dies which a name is all it has been for sometime now we will see bow tie badged cars



If the Holden name dies, it will mean that GM have withdrawn from Australia like they have done in Europe and a couple of other countries. So there will be no bow tie badged cars sold by GM in Australia.


Not sure if this is right. Most reports say that Holden will just cop a re-brand to the bow-tie.
There's nothing bad about the Holden range when compared to any other car maker - it's just the image.


"Ford痴 Bathurst winning bonus didn稚 even cover the cost of the after-party" - Allan Moffat, 1977

Edited by - skaifeman on 05 Dec 2019 10:40:54
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
2996 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

 offline

Posted - 05 Dec 2019 :  11:12:41  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by WarrenK

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505
As I stated above if the Holden name dies which a name is all it has been for sometime now we will see bow tie badged cars



If the Holden name dies, it will mean that GM have withdrawn from Australia like they have done in Europe and a couple of other countries. So there will be no bow tie badged cars sold by GM in Australia.



That痴 bull crap, GM is here and here to stay and will also continue in Australian Motorsport like that have and have done for a long long time.
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