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 Has 888 ruined Supercars?
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karter
Team Manager


11580 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 01 May 2019 :  12:10:39  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert



"
[*]1.4.4 The Category is not about equalisation of the abilities of participating Drivers and/or Teams. It is up to individual Drivers and/or Teams to compete to the best of their abilities under the principle of technical parity.





They forgot to add: "Unless you beat 888. Then you'll get nobbled.".
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simonr23
V8 Champion


1320 Posts
joined 08 Mar 07

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Posted - 01 May 2019 :  20:31:22  Show Profile Send simonr23 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
No, but they’re working/expecting things to be at a level above what the industry is able to fairly control. Bit like an afl team manager, being posted to a country league club.
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bigem
A polar bear



Australia
15961 Posts
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Posted - 01 May 2019 :  23:31:36  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Supercars has contradicted half of those statements!

Where is the re-evaluation and testing?
If ZB had to be changed you can guarantee 888 would get an extra test day, plus extra tyres!

Colorado, the D-max that John West rejects!
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djr18fan
Team Manager



New Zealand
1579 Posts
joined 06 Jul 06

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Posted - 02 May 2019 :  04:25:02  Show Profile Send djr18fan a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bigem

Supercars has contradicted half of those statements!

Where is the re-evaluation and testing?
If ZB had to be changed you can guarantee 888 would get an extra test day, plus extra tyres!



Did you complain last year when the Ford got composite panels and a lower cog last year - and no extra test day to measure the impact?

_Mford
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joe5619
Team Manager



Australia
4387 Posts
joined 01 Mar 03

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Posted - 02 May 2019 :  07:50:40  Show Profile Send joe5619 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bigem


If ZB had to be changed you can guarantee 888 would get an extra test day, plus extra tyres!

Seeing as it's never happened in the history of motorsports in this country EVER, how anyone would think it's "guarantee" is just laughable!!
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Muz
Team Manager



Australia
6612 Posts
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Posted - 02 May 2019 :  08:43:39  Show Profile  Visit Muz's Homepage Send Muz a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Triple 8 have probably been the key drivers in making this series more professional than ever before...and look they're doing it again because they have made Supercars realise their archaic parity tests don't seem to work anymore.

How is this a bad thing?

McLaughlin later described the final corner: "I don't know what happened there. I just plucked it in first, gave it some jandal and **** yeah!"
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karter
Team Manager


11580 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 02 May 2019 :  09:19:52  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Muz

Triple 8 have probably been the key drivers in making this series more professional than ever before...and look they're doing it again because they have made Supercars realise their archaic parity tests don't seem to work anymore.

How is this a bad thing?



It's the timing. For decades of Holden domination the parity testing was supposedly just wonderful. Then a Ford wins a couple of races and suddenly everything needs to change.

If the parity testing doesn't work now why would it have ever worked?

It's obvious Holden have had massive parity advantages in the past, yet nothing was done about them. Why now?
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
2386 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

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Posted - 02 May 2019 :  09:34:19  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by Muz

Triple 8 have probably been the key drivers in making this series more professional than ever before...and look they're doing it again because they have made Supercars realise their archaic parity tests don't seem to work anymore.

How is this a bad thing?



It's the timing. For decades of Holden domination the parity testing was supposedly just wonderful. Then a Ford wins a couple of races and suddenly everything needs to change.

If the parity testing doesn't work now why would it have ever worked?

It's obvious Holden have had massive parity advantages in the past, yet nothing was done about them. Why now?



There was no prior problem with the parity test due to all parties building cars equal to the others with no significant advantage as per the rules. The problem is Penske came into the series and built a car the same way they do for the other motorsport categories they enter which is go all out and push the limits.

So triple 8 had nothing to do with ruining the series and Holden have never had a parity advantage but of course we all know this.

Edited by - troy01505 on 02 May 2019 09:35:29
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bigem
A polar bear



Australia
15961 Posts
joined 22 Jun 04

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Posted - 02 May 2019 :  09:36:03  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by Muz

Triple 8 have probably been the key drivers in making this series more professional than ever before...and look they're doing it again because they have made Supercars realise their archaic parity tests don't seem to work anymore.

How is this a bad thing?



It's the timing. For decades of Holden domination the parity testing was supposedly just wonderful. Then a Ford wins a couple of races and suddenly everything needs to change.

If the parity testing doesn't work now why would it have ever worked?

It's obvious Holden have had massive parity advantages in the past, yet nothing was done about them. Why now?



Can't work that out Kart-man. Holden are on a slippery slope to oblivion yet the corrupt rule changes continue To favor them.

This technical parity crap is as CL said, a no win for Supercars and is working towards the demise of the series, it's that big a deal.

Nissan have already pulled out, along with Volvo, Ford have invested massively but will only take so much before they go, its not sustainable for them to be forced to change their car after every second round!

And Holden, well, who knows their future, from what I know, more dealers are winding up, so it's just a matter of time!

Supercars will have zero manufacturer support Before they know it, in Ford's case, you can't keep biting the hand that feeds you!

Go the TCR series!

Colorado, the D-max that John West rejects!
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karter
Team Manager


11580 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 02 May 2019 :  11:24:35  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by Muz

Triple 8 have probably been the key drivers in making this series more professional than ever before...and look they're doing it again because they have made Supercars realise their archaic parity tests don't seem to work anymore.

How is this a bad thing?



It's the timing. For decades of Holden domination the parity testing was supposedly just wonderful. Then a Ford wins a couple of races and suddenly everything needs to change.

If the parity testing doesn't work now why would it have ever worked?

It's obvious Holden have had massive parity advantages in the past, yet nothing was done about them. Why now?



There was no prior problem with the parity test due to all parties building cars equal to the others with no significant advantage as per the rules. The problem is Penske came into the series and built a car the same way they do for the other motorsport categories they enter which is go all out and push the limits.

So triple 8 had nothing to do with ruining the series and Holden have never had a parity advantage but of course we all know this.



How do you know the cars were equal?

Supercars says this year was the most equal they've ever been.

And Ford are winning. (Which is unacceptable.)

So it follows that in previous years when the results were less equal one car had an advantage.

And Holden were winning. (Which is acceptable.)

So it's pretty obvious which car has had the advantage in parity testing the past 10 or so years.

And from this year it's obvious they want that advantage back, and are hopeless without it.
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
2386 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

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Posted - 02 May 2019 :  12:03:14  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by Muz

Triple 8 have probably been the key drivers in making this series more professional than ever before...and look they're doing it again because they have made Supercars realise their archaic parity tests don't seem to work anymore.

How is this a bad thing?



It's the timing. For decades of Holden domination the parity testing was supposedly just wonderful. Then a Ford wins a couple of races and suddenly everything needs to change.

If the parity testing doesn't work now why would it have ever worked?

It's obvious Holden have had massive parity advantages in the past, yet nothing was done about them. Why now?



There was no prior problem with the parity test due to all parties building cars equal to the others with no significant advantage as per the rules. The problem is Penske came into the series and built a car the same way they do for the other motorsport categories they enter which is go all out and push the limits.

So triple 8 had nothing to do with ruining the series and Holden have never had a parity advantage but of course we all know this.



How do you know the cars were equal?

Supercars says this year was the most equal they've ever been.

And Ford are winning. (Which is unacceptable.)

So it follows that in previous years when the results were less equal one car had an advantage.

And Holden were winning. (Which is acceptable.)

So it's pretty obvious which car has had the advantage in parity testing the past 10 or so years.

And from this year it's obvious they want that advantage back, and are hopeless without it.



Results, car data and other computer simulations show the cars were equal!

And the rest has all been discussed and answered numerous times so it is pointless dragging it out any further as clearly your opinion is set in concrete regardless.

I'll stick to my opinion that triple 8 DID NOT ruin the series which is quite clear by how much interest has either stuck around or grown since they bought out Briggs Motorsport many years ago.
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Muz
Team Manager



Australia
6612 Posts
joined 06 May 08

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Posted - 02 May 2019 :  12:10:53  Show Profile  Visit Muz's Homepage Send Muz a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

quote:
Originally posted by Muz

Triple 8 have probably been the key drivers in making this series more professional than ever before...and look they're doing it again because they have made Supercars realise their archaic parity tests don't seem to work anymore.

How is this a bad thing?



It's the timing. For decades of Holden domination the parity testing was supposedly just wonderful. Then a Ford wins a couple of races and suddenly everything needs to change.

If the parity testing doesn't work now why would it have ever worked?

It's obvious Holden have had massive parity advantages in the past, yet nothing was done about them. Why now?



I agree with you, the timing is awful. Ford have just invested heavily, Penske have committed and Supercars have absolutely ballsed it up.

For the purpose of this discussion, I don't think any of us can accurately comment on parity in the past, but of course, we can speculate.

In terms of Holden being the bad guys here, sure they are if you don't support them. But it was hardly going to be a Ford team who raised the flag, and KR seem to be very neutral in all of this (at least publicly). We can blame Holden all we want, but everyone on this forum knows that the testing for parity is well past its use by date and that the core issue lies with the series.

If the shoe was on the other foot, Holden fans would be jumping up and down, as the Ford fans are. No matter what badge, the fans should be livid.

My hope is that the series gets this right so that manufacturers don't see this and decide to walk away. The past is done, looking at an equal future needs to be the point of discussion.

Thankfully we have teams like Penske and T8 who are active in pointing out the flaws in the series and how it should be improved. It's needed.

McLaughlin later described the final corner: "I don't know what happened there. I just plucked it in first, gave it some jandal and **** yeah!"
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karter
Team Manager


11580 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 02 May 2019 :  12:13:00  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Facts don't support that. Attendance numbers are falling and manufacturers are withdrawing.

I'm not saying that's 888's fault. They just do what Supercars lets them.

As for computer simulations. GIGO.

Edit: totally agree Muz, the above is in response to Troys post.

Edited by - karter on 02 May 2019 12:15:45
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