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Supercars Australia => Repco Supercars Championship => Topic started by: LG on May 12, 2021, 08:19:03 AM

Title: Gen 3
Post by: LG on May 12, 2021, 08:19:03 AM
The outcome of the 'crisis meeting' yesterday with the teams really raises more questions.
Unless both homologation teams are way further ahead than we are led to believe, I still don't see how they will be racing them at the beginning of next season.
 
"Supercars has earmarked testing of its Gen3 car to get underway midway through this year."
Do they realise it's already mid May?

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/05/11/supercars-declares-gen3-still-set-for-2022-rollout/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: njenner on May 12, 2021, 10:55:54 AM
Anything less than a flawless rollout of this project and Seamer has to get the boot.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Wrighty05 on May 12, 2021, 05:01:26 PM
It seems like a hot mess at the moment
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: AlbertM on May 13, 2021, 12:08:43 AM
Any bets they will wrap a Camaro around the current chassis to save face?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on May 13, 2021, 08:08:54 AM
Camaro won't fit in any shape or form around the current chassis.
They'd be more likely to run the current shape for another season.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: bb on May 13, 2021, 04:39:47 PM
Just what the series would need, another bastardized body shell. ::)

Really this is just Trans Am but more expensive.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: vipernz on May 13, 2021, 05:06:11 PM
Any bets they will wrap a Camaro around the current chassis to save face?
I would say you have a safe bet there Albert...

Throw a Dodge in there 2 for fun... :)
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Tickford8 on May 13, 2021, 07:00:37 PM
I dont why it has to be only American based. Why not try and take a gamble and throw a Asian or Euro make in there?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: vipernz on May 13, 2021, 07:24:13 PM
Other brands don't appear interested I guess
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Lyro on May 13, 2021, 08:47:17 PM
 I bet they make a dogs breakfast of it. ;D
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Lyro on May 14, 2021, 06:41:43 AM
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/05/14/mid-2022-gen3-rollout-an-option-for-supercars/


Now they plan to introduce Gen3 mid season to enhance the prospect of selling off the category?
What a bunch of fools!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Trevor on May 14, 2021, 07:13:07 AM
Is it just me or does anyone else think SC's have lost the plot with what the sport is about?  I know I have been going on about 'production' racing for years, surely it must go full circle eventually

Fans are walking away from SC's in the droves, I know the millennials are more interested in other things, but it doesn't seem to me that SC's are looking to attract that audience and they should for the sport to survive
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on May 14, 2021, 07:42:50 AM
It's becoming more of a joke every day.
Staff told to stay home last Tuesday so they could have the meeting, teams seemingly gagged...
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Brazen on May 14, 2021, 10:13:22 AM
It's so embarrassing... why can't it just be easy?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: madbugger on May 14, 2021, 08:20:23 PM
I’m starting to wonder just how much life this organisation has left. From the outside it looks like a dead man walking.

Looking backwards, Tony Cochrane is not looking so bad after all🤣🤣
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Brazen on May 14, 2021, 08:36:40 PM
I’m starting to wonder just how much life this organisation has left. From the outside it looks like a dead man walking.

Looking backwards, Tony Cochrane is not looking so bad after all🤣🤣

I don't know... I still found him annoying... the way he talked really grated
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Sonic on May 14, 2021, 08:57:26 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else think SC's have lost the plot with what the sport is about?  I know I have been going on about 'production' racing for years, surely it must go full circle eventually

Fans are walking away from SC's in the droves, I know the millennials are more interested in other things, but it doesn't seem to me that SC's are looking to attract that audience and they should for the sport to survive

some decisions do leave you scratching your head for sure. they don't care about the fan trackside so much (personal opinion), they do care about the casual tv observer (which hurts the teams as tv viewers don't buy merch at the track)

for me I think they really could have had a winning option for direction with the TA2 setup that was simple, even if they decided to run it with their own current mechanical package and keep it overpriced. (Bathurst TA2 did a 2:15 vs SC at 2:05). So in current form they are 10 seconds a lap slower BUT $600,000 for a Supercar *link below* vs $130,000 for a TA2 (pricing is prob higher as the article was from 2018) but even if you double that price you could still give every REC owner 2 cars to run and still have money in the bank and the fans would be loving having more cars back on track which is what we want to see! Walking around the tracks that I go to the fans love them, they sound better, they move around and give the driver a challenge.

really think they missed the boat here.

https://www.race.news/2020/06/26/the-real-cost-of-a-supercar/
http://ta2racingaustralia.com/25th-car-sold-for-ta2-muscle-car-series/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Trevor on May 14, 2021, 09:41:27 PM
I saw them the other (I think it was them), Glenn Seton's son was racing????  Looked like great racing
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on May 14, 2021, 10:31:53 PM
I saw them the other (I think it was them), Glenn Seton's son was racing????  Looked like great racing

Those are the ones. Paul Morris' son, Nash, has also had a crack quite successfully.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on May 15, 2021, 06:56:48 AM
He took the sport from tears to glory but he also implemented the reasons for the gradual downfall. He saw the ship was going to sink and jumped once he sired the iceberg. For Adelaide to pull out of the calendar, the sport must be in some real bad shape. Hopefully it’s sold off and new owners fix the circus and rid it of its incompetence.

In my opinion there is not a chance in hell that the new generation cars can be racing at next seasons start. More teams and officials see it the same way then those who think they’ll be up and running next season.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on May 15, 2021, 09:55:37 PM
He took the sport from tears to glory

What were the tears he started with?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on May 16, 2021, 07:04:19 AM
A lot of nostalgia being posted. Again.

The Mustang had it's first test in November 18 prior racing from the start of the 2019 season.
The ZBs first run was in sept 17 prior to racing from the start of the 2018 season.

That suggests not seeing a completed gen3 car on track by mid 2021 does not spell disaster.

I reckon the engines are the main issue at this point.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: midcoast1 on May 16, 2021, 03:04:13 PM
He took the sport from tears to glory but he also implemented the reasons for the gradual downfall. He saw the ship was going to sink and jumped once he sired the iceberg. For Adelaide to pull out of the calendar, the sport must be in some real bad shape. Hopefully it’s sold off and new owners fix the circus and rid it of its incompetence.

In my opinion there is not a chance in hell that the new generation cars can be racing at next seasons start. More teams and officials see it the same way then those who think they’ll be up and running next season.

From what i could gather on The Enforcer And The Dude show when they discussed this on Friday , Supercars want the Gen 3 up and running next year but the teams want to wait till 2022 . As for going to the paddle shift . Dead against it myself
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: CP on May 17, 2021, 12:39:45 AM
With some of ideas floating around for Gen3 with paddle shifters, roof hatches for driver extraction, production based engines, closer to road going styling cues and the like, it's almost as if there are a group of cars that feature all of this and you can buy them straight off the shelf.

Sure, they'll lose a little bit of an engineering edge with the ruleset they are based around, and they are a little power restricted (which can be taken off) but you can buy them for around the same price as what they're quoting for the Gen3 car anyway.

Surely building the new ruleset around specced up GT4 cars wouldn't do the series any harm? Besides, what other category can you buy ready to go Mustangs and Camaros straight from the factory?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on May 17, 2021, 04:29:06 AM
With some of ideas floating around for Gen3 with paddle shifters, roof hatches for driver extraction, production based engines, closer to road going styling cues and the like, it's almost as if there are a group of cars that feature all of this and you can buy them straight off the shelf.

Sure, they'll lose a little bit of an engineering edge with the ruleset they are based around, and they are a little power restricted (which can be taken off) but you can buy them for around the same price as what they're quoting for the Gen3 car anyway.

Surely building the new ruleset around specced up GT4 cars wouldn't do the series any harm? Besides, what other category can you buy ready to go Mustangs and Camaros straight from the factory?

There would still be a need for engine, aero, cof & possibly weight changes to cars from other formula in order to achieve parity. Given the cost of all that - may as well control your own destiny? I prefer technical parity ahead of BOP. Don't want to see some cars suit some tracks & not others, most teams running the same car & changing cars when better models appear. Continuity builds fan support.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on May 17, 2021, 09:05:33 AM
A lot of nostalgia being posted. Again.

The Mustang had it's first test in November 18 prior racing from the start of the 2019 season.
The ZBs first run was in sept 17 prior to racing from the start of the 2018 season.

That suggests not seeing a completed gen3 car on track by mid 2021 does not spell disaster.

I reckon the engines are the main issue at this point.

Mustang and ZB were just new skins on the existing platform


Completely different to a ground up brand new Gen3

With some of ideas floating around for Gen3 with paddle shifters, roof hatches for driver extraction, production based engines, closer to road going styling cues and the like, it's almost as if there are a group of cars that feature all of this and you can buy them straight off the shelf.

Sure, they'll lose a little bit of an engineering edge with the ruleset they are based around, and they are a little power restricted (which can be taken off) but you can buy them for around the same price as what they're quoting for the Gen3 car anyway.

Surely building the new ruleset around specced up GT4 cars wouldn't do the series any harm? Besides, what other category can you buy ready to go Mustangs and Camaros straight from the factory?

There would still be a need for engine, aero, cof & possibly weight changes to cars from other formula in order to achieve parity. Given the cost of all that - may as well control your own destiny? I prefer technical parity ahead of BOP. Don't want to see some cars suit some tracks & not others, most teams running the same car & changing cars when better models appear. Continuity builds fan support.

What parity would need to be done, GT4 parity is handled by SRO

Technical parity is the same as BoP

Cars suit some tracks and not others as is, and always have.

Teams swap models when better cars appear as is, why have Kelly’s and Blanchards gone to the Mustang after it cleaned up in DJRTP’s hands?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on May 17, 2021, 03:36:29 PM
With some of ideas floating around for Gen3 with paddle shifters, roof hatches for driver extraction, production based engines, closer to road going styling cues and the like, it's almost as if there are a group of cars that feature all of this and you can buy them straight off the shelf.

Sure, they'll lose a little bit of an engineering edge with the ruleset they are based around, and they are a little power restricted (which can be taken off) but you can buy them for around the same price as what they're quoting for the Gen3 car anyway.

Surely building the new ruleset around specced up GT4 cars wouldn't do the series any harm? Besides, what other category can you buy ready to go Mustangs and Camaros straight from the factory?

There would still be a need for engine, aero, cof & possibly weight changes to cars from other formula in order to achieve parity. Given the cost of all that - may as well control your own destiny? I prefer technical parity ahead of BOP. Don't want to see some cars suit some tracks & not others, most teams running the same car & changing cars when better models appear. Continuity builds fan support.

What parity would need to be done, GT4 parity is handled by SRO

Technical parity is the same as BoP

Cars suit some tracks and not others as is, and always have.

Teams swap models when better cars appear as is, why have Kelly’s and Blanchards gone to the Mustang after it cleaned up in DJRTP’s hands?

To be fair, Kelly's and Blanchard went Mustang because the writing was on the wall for Holden. Ford are still tipping some sort of money into the sport.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Lyro on May 17, 2021, 09:04:30 PM

[/quote]

To be fair, Kelly's and Blanchard went Mustang because the writing was on the wall for Holden. Ford are still tipping some sort of money into the sport.
[/quote]

The also are being helped directly by Ford in various ways that Holden stopped doing years ago. Being able to talk direct to Ford Performance directly is a big help.  I don't think T8 would give away too much compared to what they would be getting.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: brighty08 on May 18, 2021, 02:48:17 PM
Does anyone reckon they should copy the next gen NASCAR and stick on a spoiler?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Trevor on May 18, 2021, 03:12:52 PM
and painted headlights/taillights?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: DRB05 on May 18, 2021, 08:24:44 PM
Does anyone reckon they should copy the next gen NASCAR and stick on a spoiler?
We’d just have what we have now. NASCAR took a lot of guide for next gen from a current supercar


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: brighty08 on May 18, 2021, 09:00:14 PM
Yeah I can understand that. I'm just fed up Supercars need to get the ball rolling. NASCAR is already hyping it up it's sh*tting me to tears.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on May 19, 2021, 10:37:12 AM
Pace chassis


https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/second-gen3-prototype-chassis-images-released/


(https://i.postimg.cc/L57PXWTj/Pace-Chassis.jpg)
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: CP on May 19, 2021, 11:12:00 PM
Is that bit of sheet on the roll hoop there for bracing or is that the new firewall?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on May 21, 2021, 08:43:42 AM
Pace chassis


https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/second-gen3-prototype-chassis-images-released/


(https://i.postimg.cc/L57PXWTj/Pace-Chassis.jpg)

So nearing the end of may and they are about 10% into the build and other then a few pretty drawings 0% into the aero and design?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on May 21, 2021, 09:19:53 AM
You'd hope that the aero is all in CAD and CFD programs, I'd almost assure you 888 would have it going like they did with Wirth for the ZB. They are gun-hoe aiming at getting this Camaro out.
I'd also assume DJR and Ford Performance would be doing the same?

Driveline is the worry, have they even announced the regs?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: AlbertM on May 21, 2021, 10:26:53 PM
Would think they would just carry over the existing driveline.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: CP on May 22, 2021, 09:31:45 AM
You'd hope that the aero is all in CAD and CFD programs, I'd almost assure you 888 would have it going like they did with Wirth for the ZB. They are gun-hoe aiming at getting this Camaro out.
I'd also assume DJR and Ford Performance would be doing the same?

Driveline is the worry, have they even announced the regs?

The Xtrac transaxles are paddle shift and hybrid ready.

The biggest thing is the engines. I don't think they've done parity testing on those, or even which ones they're based around. Ford could use the 5.2L that's found in the Mustang GT4, and GM have a race ready 5.5L that's strapped in the back of their Cadillac DPi cars and the Corvette C8R.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on May 22, 2021, 10:59:24 AM
Is that bit of sheet on the roll hoop there for bracing or is that the new firewall?
Good question, it certainly is very different.

It would remove any viewing out the rear by the looks.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on May 22, 2021, 06:24:59 PM
Is that bit of sheet on the roll hoop there for bracing or is that the new firewall?
Good question, it certainly is very different.

It would remove any viewing out the rear by the looks.

https://www.motorsport.com/v8supercars/news/testing-gen3-supercars-engines/5569051/

https://autoaction.com.au/2021/05/06/international-rescue-supercars-calls-in-american-experts
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on May 26, 2021, 02:59:39 PM
This article shows both chassis and there seems to be a few differences in bar work.

There appears to be an extra diagonal brace across the rear window in the 888 car, but it may just be the angles.

Clearly the 888 chassis is not yet completed with the rear clip.

Will teams be allowed to use the standard approved chassis, but add some additional bracing and safety barwork??

https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/how-gen3-chassis-can-prevent-early-exits-after-accidents/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on May 26, 2021, 03:29:03 PM
This article shows both chassis and there seems to be a few differences in bar work.

There appears to be an extra diagonal brace across the rear window in the 888 car, but it may just be the angles.

Clearly the 888 chassis is not yet completed with the rear clip.

Will teams be allowed to use the standard approved chassis, but add some additional bracing and safety barwork??

https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/how-gen3-chassis-can-prevent-early-exits-after-accidents/


I think the only differences can be the barwork to hold panels on.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Bloopy on May 26, 2021, 04:26:57 PM
The Triple Eight one is an older photo from before a few of the specs were refined, as explained here:

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/05/21/clarifying-the-camaro-chassis-and-mustang-chassis/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on May 26, 2021, 06:55:40 PM
Is that bit of sheet on the roll hoop there for bracing or is that the new firewall?
Good question, it certainly is very different.

It would remove any viewing out the rear by the looks.

https://www.motorsport.com/v8supercars/news/testing-gen3-supercars-engines/5569051/

https://autoaction.com.au/2021/05/06/international-rescue-supercars-calls-in-american-experts
Am I missing something? Didn’t see any mention of it in those links.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on May 27, 2021, 04:37:37 AM
Is that bit of sheet on the roll hoop there for bracing or is that the new firewall?
Good question, it certainly is very different.

It would remove any viewing out the rear by the looks.

https://www.motorsport.com/v8supercars/news/testing-gen3-supercars-engines/5569051/

https://autoaction.com.au/2021/05/06/international-rescue-supercars-calls-in-american-experts
Am I missing something? Didn’t see any mention of it in those links.

Oops. I replied to the wrong post.

There was discussions about engines. Links refer to that
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on May 28, 2021, 09:20:02 AM
5.4 Coyote and either the 5.7 or 6.2 LS: I like this move, more in line with what our cars run.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/05/28/gen3-engine-details-come-to-light/

Article suggests it's not happening, but forgo engine parity and introduce timed pit stops? If they want a GT series just bloody adopt it!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Kytabu on May 28, 2021, 09:26:46 AM
So even if we assume that Supercars achieves aerodynamic parity with Gen3 (which they probably won't), teams and fans will be able to discuss engine parity instead!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on June 02, 2021, 10:35:53 AM
Burgess reckons testing will start in August...

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/06/02/supercars-set-to-begin-gen3-prototype-testing-in-august/?fbclid=IwAR1Gtn2hke-zH-eqf5cqMysN_uScrJk8EQOBXsiGz2A_hJAd-RvJwfiUE0o


I see the exhaust outlets are in front of the driver.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: CP on June 02, 2021, 12:42:13 PM
Burgess reckons testing will start in August...

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/06/02/supercars-set-to-begin-gen3-prototype-testing-in-august/?fbclid=IwAR1Gtn2hke-zH-eqf5cqMysN_uScrJk8EQOBXsiGz2A_hJAd-RvJwfiUE0o


I see the exhaust outlets are in front of the driver.

They're mounted like that for packaging of a hybrid system somewhere down the track.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on June 02, 2021, 01:52:48 PM
Burgess reckons testing will start in August...

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/06/02/supercars-set-to-begin-gen3-prototype-testing-in-august/?fbclid=IwAR1Gtn2hke-zH-eqf5cqMysN_uScrJk8EQOBXsiGz2A_hJAd-RvJwfiUE0o


I see the exhaust outlets are in front of the driver.

They're mounted like that for packaging of a hybrid system somewhere down the track.

Still don't like them there. There's just too much that can go wrong.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on June 02, 2021, 05:01:33 PM
Surprise, surprise!
The cost of a gen 3 is increasing...
Who'da thunk it?  :) 

https://autoaction.com.au/2021/06/02/gen3-cost-creep-confirmed?fbclid=IwAR0x5CaMEYLKQCAgJ9-AYE2ZZRaGaL8cDqnCPNSswwfP2tdmLkUIa1JVk4E
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on June 02, 2021, 10:07:40 PM
Surprise, surprise!
The cost of a gen 3 is increasing...
Who'da thunk it?  :) 

https://autoaction.com.au/2021/06/02/gen3-cost-creep-confirmed?fbclid=IwAR0x5CaMEYLKQCAgJ9-AYE2ZZRaGaL8cDqnCPNSswwfP2tdmLkUIa1JVk4E

I reckon $600k plus and if it’s not that high straight of the bat then it will be once teams chase the extra 1/10s
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on June 03, 2021, 04:39:09 AM
Cost of a vehicle is a minor part of operations. There's a lot of positive news in that article.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: meha on June 03, 2021, 09:43:47 AM
My thoughts about the Gen 3 for what they are worth.

To be honest I am still trying to work out why there is such a big deal over paddle vs stick shift. I know that there was a similar debate when things switched from the H pattern to the sequential box and now I suspect that a number of people would not care that much about it. Supercars are trying to promote a new generation of cars however, the issue that I see it is that there is just a big pile of uncertainty about what the finished product will be.

I fully acknowledge that the old idea of win on Sunday sell on Monday is never going to happen and that the final product will be unlikely to look much like the road going version that they are based on. However, Supercars keep pushing this message that the racing will be closer than ever and the inevitable parity word then raises its head.

The Parity discussion is one that I hate. The absolute reality is that unless every single car is made exactly the same by the same people and everything down to the last nut a bold is the same there is always going to be a difference in cars. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Some cars will suit some tracks better than others and vice verse. That is no difference with the current generation of cars. There are some tracks that suit the Holden badged cars and there are others that suit the ford badged cars.

The cars are unlikely to be cheaper to make despite any claims that are being made about this. The reality is that teams will look for a way to build fasters cars within the rules. That is the whole point of the good race teams, they look for ways or loopholes within the rules to build the fastest car possible and to win races. To suggest anything else simply ignores the reality of the point of racing. Teams looking for these advantages will spend as much as they are able to within their budgets to find these gains.

my thoughts anyway for what they are worth.

 
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on June 03, 2021, 05:02:08 PM
There will be no development of cars or engines according to this

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/06/03/supercars-to-end-arms-race-with-gen3/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on June 03, 2021, 05:03:51 PM
And the purpose of paddle shift is to reduce costs

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/06/03/why-supercars-is-serious-about-paddle-shift-auto-blip/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Sonic on June 04, 2021, 08:33:22 AM
give them one gearing setup to use for the year, stop them changing everything for every track they go to... make them adapt the driver rather than the car.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on June 04, 2021, 03:30:15 PM
And the purpose of paddle shift is to reduce costs

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/06/03/why-supercars-is-serious-about-paddle-shift-auto-blip/

They also then need to introduce traction control, so spinning the rear wheels out of a corner and losing control hitting a wall can’t happen, thus reducing repair costs. Same as we need ABS, so a driver can’t lock a brake and slide into the wall, thus reducing repair costs.

Maybe we need to race Isle of Man TT style too, less wheel to wheel racing will reduce costs too

Racing costs money, period.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: meha on June 04, 2021, 04:12:28 PM
There will be no development of cars or engines according to this

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/06/03/supercars-to-end-arms-race-with-gen3/

I find the story quite ironic really. They keep saying that they are reducing costs by making a lot of parts spec but at the same time trying to say there will still be plenty of things to chance for teams to make things interesting.

You are either making things spec or not. You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on June 04, 2021, 06:24:37 PM
give them one gearing setup to use for the year, stop them changing everything for every track they go to... make them adapt the driver rather than the car.

I change the diff between different hillclimbs! Let them change however they see fit, they'd all probably run the same anyway, but I don't know why there's a rule for specific ratio's at each track.

...and... GEN 3 POSTPONED:
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/statement-regarding-gen3-timeline/

Mid-season? (August).
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on June 04, 2021, 09:08:24 PM
There will be no development of cars or engines according to this

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/06/03/supercars-to-end-arms-race-with-gen3/

I find the story quite ironic really. They keep saying that they are reducing costs by making a lot of parts spec but at the same time trying to say there will still be plenty of things to chance for teams to make things interesting.

You are either making things spec or not. You can't have it both ways.

Of course you can. Control parts that are adjustable. Everyone has the same part with the same adjustability built into it. Like ride hide, anti roll bars, tyre pressures, camber, caster et.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on June 05, 2021, 06:03:36 AM
give them one gearing setup to use for the year, stop them changing everything for every track they go to... make them adapt the driver rather than the car.

I change the diff between different hillclimbs! Let them change however they see fit, they'd all probably run the same anyway, but I don't know why there's a rule for specific ratio's at each track.

...and... GEN 3 POSTPONED:
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/statement-regarding-gen3-timeline/

Mid-season? (August).
Mid season change in cars does seem a bit odd, no doubt there will be a mid season break in the calendar?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Ben on June 05, 2021, 10:08:23 AM
I seem to recall NASCAR doing something similar, with their COT? Poor planning IMO from Supercars but it is doable.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on June 05, 2021, 10:15:53 AM
So they have finally admitted something that most people have been telling them for some time by delaying the intro.
At least Seamer has finally listened.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Brazen on June 05, 2021, 01:45:39 PM
I don't like the idea of a mid-season intro... imagine a driver's title charge being de-railed by new car gremlins... pretty farcical
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: bb on June 05, 2021, 03:33:48 PM
I don't like the idea of a mid-season intro... imagine a driver's title charge being de-railed by new car gremlins... pretty farcical

Yep, can just hear it now "I only lost because they changed the car mid season"

If it needs to be delayed, delay it until the next year.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: SetonFan on June 05, 2021, 10:44:20 PM
It probably proves that they'll never switch to a summer series as if they were ever going to do it they now have a perfect opportunity
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on June 06, 2021, 12:09:53 PM
They would never do it anyway. Summer is to hot for some drivers to cope
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on June 06, 2021, 06:10:12 PM
They’ve been throwing around summer series ideas for 25 years, the only people who were ever really interested in the summer series idea were were mid-90s Channel 7 management, and indeed the series started making a slight shift towards summer in 1996, before the black wiggle decided he knew what was best
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on June 30, 2021, 03:36:55 PM
It still confuses me how, the majority of drivers still want a gear stick:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/06/30/mclaughlin-heel-and-toe-part-of-the-art-of-supercars/

The fans also want a gear stick and no assisted shift:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/01/25/poll-the-heel-and-toe-in-supercars/

...yet Supercars insists on pursuing paddle shift.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: SetonFan on June 30, 2021, 07:19:15 PM
The drivers and fans don't pay the bills.

Barry Ryan also made the interesting point on the V8 Sleuth podcast that the drivers are of course going to be protective of something that they are used to and skilled at, as it makes it harder for others to beat them.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on June 30, 2021, 09:45:07 PM
The drivers and fans don't pay the bills.

Barry Ryan also made the interesting point on the V8 Sleuth podcast that the drivers are of course going to be protective of something that they are used to and skilled at, as it makes it harder for others to beat them.

Sounds like motorsport to me?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on July 03, 2021, 07:58:11 AM
Heard a rumour from a major sponsor that over half the teams are committed to fighting to the finish to delay the next generation until 2023.

Maybe if we have anyone in the sport on here they can confirm or deny?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: AlbertM on July 03, 2021, 11:30:24 AM
Heard a rumour from a major sponsor that over half the teams are committed to fighting to the finish to delay the next generation until 2023.

Maybe if we have anyone in the sport on here they can confirm or deny?
The way Gen 3 is going 2023 will be earliest anyway. 
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on July 03, 2021, 05:17:30 PM
Heard a rumour from a major sponsor that over half the teams are committed to fighting to the finish to delay the next generation until 2023.

Maybe if we have anyone in the sport on here they can confirm or deny?
The way Gen 3 is going 2023 will be earliest anyway.

Sounds about right with everyone have heard outside of the dribble from the Supercars management themselves
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on July 03, 2021, 06:02:05 PM
There should be new Supercar owners before 2022, so many of the current Gen 3 criticisms will hopefully cease to be relevant.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: WarrenK on July 05, 2021, 04:31:17 PM
If they don't hurray up and get the Gen3 on the track GM supports will be supporting a vehicle that is memory sooner than they thought.
 
From motor1.com
Meanwhile, news from the Mustang's long-time rival is even worse. The Chevrolet Camaro logged just 2,792 sales for the same period, representing a deathly 58.2-percent drop compared to last year. To make that live for you, Ford nearly sold as many Mustangs in June alone as Chevy sold Camaros through the entire spring season. Yes, there are rumors that GM will keep the Camaro around until 2026, but sales numbers dwindle with every report that comes out and you know GM executives are aware of it.


Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on July 06, 2021, 04:15:41 AM
There should be new Supercar owners before 2022, so many of the current Gen 3 criticisms will hopefully cease to be relevant.

"Fans" will invent new criticisms.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Zac on July 06, 2021, 12:23:05 PM

Meanwhile, news from the Mustang's long-time rival is even worse. The Chevrolet Camaro logged just 2,792 sales for the same period, representing a deathly 58.2-percent drop compared to last year. To make that live for you, Ford nearly sold as many Mustangs in June alone as Chevy sold Camaros through the entire spring season. Yes, there are rumors that GM will keep the Camaro around until 2026, but sales numbers dwindle with every report that comes out and you know GM executives are aware of it.
They're aware of it, and they know where those sales went to. Not many went to the Mustang, but to a car in a higher price class - the Corvette C8. Because of supply problems, GM can't sell as many Corvettes as buyers want, but it is the sales leader in its class, selling more units than all its competitors combined. Not that the Corvette has anything to do with Gen 3, but this helps explain the Camaro's sad sales figures.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: jd on July 08, 2021, 03:47:30 PM
That might explain why but it doesn't change the fact that the Camaro is basically a dead duck with those sales figures and it will be shot well before 2026.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on July 08, 2021, 09:49:14 PM
You're right, but what do sales figures have to do with a silhouette class of parity racing anyway? It didn't help Holden or Falcon sales, nor Altima or Volvo sales either. I wouldn't know if Nissan or Volvo still sell any Altimas or S60s, but if they do, Supercars didn't help. Supercars embarrassed the Mercedes name, and on it goes. Just go for teams and drivers and forget the brand the car is pretending to be.

Yeah, almost this! I just pick a driver now and will follow them wherever they go
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on July 09, 2021, 05:06:16 AM
You're right, but what do sales figures have to do with a silhouette class of parity racing anyway? It didn't help Holden or Falcon sales, nor Altima or Volvo sales either. I wouldn't know if Nissan or Volvo still sell any Altimas or S60s, but if they do, Supercars didn't help. Supercars embarrassed the Mercedes name, and on it goes. Just go for teams and drivers and forget the brand the car is pretending to be.

Last I heard, supercars requires a manufactures blessing to run a silhouette of their car. If Camaro ceased to exist, it's likely that shape won't be in the category.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on July 20, 2021, 07:57:01 AM
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/07/20/supercars-holds-talks-with-european-manufacturer/

That time of the year again where Supercars spin their “new manufacturer” bull****
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on July 21, 2021, 07:59:14 PM
I hope that with Gen 3, Supercars get rid of a few bull**** regulations that have no practical purpose.

e.g. In a race that has only ONE tyre compound, cars are expected to have the alternative compound light in the windscreen lit.

One driver, Percat I think, was warned about his delay in turning the light on. BJR leave it off in the pits to preserve battery power. Maybe BJR are wrong in their approach. I simply do not know.

But, I do know that requiring the light on is simply not needed and does nothing to aid the viewing perceptions or further inform other drivers or teams.

There are quite a few other requirements that serve no useful purpose.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on July 22, 2021, 09:08:10 AM
I hope that with Gen 3, Supercars get rid of a few bull**** regulations that have no practical purpose.

e.g. In a race that has only ONE tyre compound, cars are expected to have the alternative compound light in the windscreen lit.

One driver, Percat I think, was warned about his delay in turning the light on. BJR leave it off in the pits to preserve battery power. Maybe BJR are wrong in their approach. I simply do not know.

But, I do know that requiring the light on is simply not needed and does nothing to aid the viewing perceptions or further inform other drivers or teams.

There are quite a few other requirements that serve no useful purpose.

That light may be useless to TV viewers, but trackside it lets people know what tyre compound they're on and whether the main or co-driver is in the car. Both pretty useful things when you're trackside and trying to piece together someone's strategy.
Once cars evenly space out you hear jack squat of the trackside commentary.

Trackside at the 2014 Bathurst, we didn't even know Whincup had fuel dramas until about 5 laps to go, meanwhile on TV they were going on about it for pretty well the whole final stint.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on July 22, 2021, 10:48:42 AM
I hope that with Gen 3, Supercars get rid of a few bull**** regulations that have no practical purpose.

e.g. In a race that has only ONE tyre compound, cars are expected to have the alternative compound light in the windscreen lit.

One driver, Percat I think, was warned about his delay in turning the light on. BJR leave it off in the pits to preserve battery power. Maybe BJR are wrong in their approach. I simply do not know.

But, I do know that requiring the light on is simply not needed and does nothing to aid the viewing perceptions or further inform other drivers or teams.

There are quite a few other requirements that serve no useful purpose.

That light may be useless to TV viewers, but trackside it lets people know what tyre compound they're on and whether the main or co-driver is in the car. Both pretty useful things when you're trackside and trying to piece together someone's strategy.
Once cars evenly space out you hear jack squat of the trackside commentary.

Trackside at the 2014 Bathurst, we didn't even know Whincup had fuel dramas until about 5 laps to go, meanwhile on TV they were going on about it for pretty well the whole final stint.

When, as I suggested, there is only ONE tyre type used for the whole race, may I further suggest that any rival team that needs a light to show the tyre compound being used would have a very real problem in their technical departments. A similar scenario applies when there are no co-drivers.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on July 22, 2021, 11:33:02 AM
I hope that with Gen 3, Supercars get rid of a few bull**** regulations that have no practical purpose.

e.g. In a race that has only ONE tyre compound, cars are expected to have the alternative compound light in the windscreen lit.

One driver, Percat I think, was warned about his delay in turning the light on. BJR leave it off in the pits to preserve battery power. Maybe BJR are wrong in their approach. I simply do not know.

But, I do know that requiring the light on is simply not needed and does nothing to aid the viewing perceptions or further inform other drivers or teams.

There are quite a few other requirements that serve no useful purpose.

That light may be useless to TV viewers, but trackside it lets people know what tyre compound they're on and whether the main or co-driver is in the car. Both pretty useful things when you're trackside and trying to piece together someone's strategy.
Once cars evenly space out you hear jack squat of the trackside commentary.

Trackside at the 2014 Bathurst, we didn't even know Whincup had fuel dramas until about 5 laps to go, meanwhile on TV they were going on about it for pretty well the whole final stint.

When, as I suggested, there is only ONE tyre type used for the whole race, may I further suggest that any rival team that needs a light to show the tyre compound being used would have a very real problem in their technical departments. A similar scenario applies when there are no co-drivers.

So rounds without mixed tyre compounds or enduros have no light, and vice versa with a light?
End result = teams still paying for a light... why's it matter? It has nothing to do with tipping off rival teams, all to do with letting trackside viewers and potentially race control know who/whats on the car.

A light is not Supercars Gen3's problem that needs solving.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on July 27, 2021, 11:03:50 PM
It is reported that TRE may be testing their engine,

The interesting thing is that they are using an Asian TA2 Mercedes.

Could this be a pointer to an Australian team using a Mercedes body shape and a TRE engine?

there are a few teams yet to commit to GM or Ford.

https://autoaction.com.au/2021/07/27/possible-gen3-engine-test-mule-spotted-on-track




Later additional info:

Quote
A Mercedes-AMG C63 bodied TA2 race car was fitted with the prototype 5.7-litre V8 with KRE Race Engines personnel and Supercars engine consultant Craig Haysted in attendance.

It’s understood Prince Jefri Ibrahim cut the lion’s share of laps in the space-frame chassis with the prototype engine.

Triple Eight Race Engineering’s drivers Jamie Whincup and Shane van Gisbergen also completed a handful of laps.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/07/28/triple-eight-tests-gen3-engine-prototype-in-ta2/
https://tav8racing.com/replica-mercedes-amg-c63-for-sale/


Maybe the Prince is just getting a new car prepared for over there. Could 888 be running the TA2 Mercedes for him over there (with correct engine.).
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: jd on July 28, 2021, 01:28:43 PM
That might explain why but it doesn't change the fact that the Camaro is basically a dead duck with those sales figures and it will be shot well before 2026.
Well that didn't take long :D

Supercars yet to be on the track Camaro will be shot in 2024 so it will have 3 years racing as a current production.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/968820/chevrolet-camaro-production-to-end-in-2024-electric-performance-sedan-to-replace-it-in-2025-report/?utm_source=Nine-Rail&utm_medium=Referral
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Ospif1 on July 28, 2021, 08:45:05 PM
Hearing a few rumours now that the new chassis is becoming a debacle.  A lot more steel in it for safety but it's 100 odd kg heavier as a result but has less torsional stiffness than the current gen.  If that's the case it will certainly make them more of a handful to drive which will be good for spectators at least.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: AlbertM on July 28, 2021, 11:12:22 PM
Lower roof line will take a bit of strength out.  That's a good thing for us though. More chassis flex will have the teams chasing setup
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on July 29, 2021, 05:49:52 PM
Lower roof line will take a bit of strength out.  That's a good thing for us though. More chassis flex will have the teams chasing setup

Finally thinking of us fans
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: AlbertM on July 29, 2021, 10:40:43 PM
If there is a flex issue, I doubt it's intentional.   Teams will hate chasing their tail with setup, but flex will cause a chassis to 'wear out'. The more it twists the more it will twist through it's life.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on July 30, 2021, 09:40:36 AM
If there is a flex issue, I doubt it's intentional.   Teams will hate chasing their tail with setup, but flex will cause a chassis to 'wear out'. The more it twists the more it will twist through it's life.

Sounds like the big teams will get new cars every season, is that cost saving?
Same thing happens in Karts - hence why it's so bloody expensive to run at the pointy end.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on July 31, 2021, 09:04:13 AM
Word out of few teams is that they can’t see how these cars will be any cheaper and even if they are it won’t be by much and not for very long at all.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on September 03, 2021, 04:27:18 PM
Is this the first time we've read this, or have I just missed it? One engine supplier for both Ford/Chev engines?

https://www.motorsport.com/v8supercars/news/walkinshaw-repurpose-supercars-engine-shop/6659133/

I know they said that they wanted to stop the engine arms race, but that can be done through a good rule set, not dictating the supplier.
Walkinshaw, Kelly's, Tickford all lose out. Makes sense why the Grove's didn't get the engine dept, what will the Kelly's use it for?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on September 03, 2021, 05:33:17 PM
Is this the first time we've read this, or have I just missed it? One engine supplier for both Ford/Chev engines?

https://www.motorsport.com/v8supercars/news/walkinshaw-repurpose-supercars-engine-shop/6659133/

I know they said that they wanted to stop the engine arms race, but that can be done through a good rule set, not dictating the supplier.
Walkinshaw, Kelly's, Tickford all lose out. Makes sense why the Grove's didn't get the engine dept, what will the Kelly's use it for?

I think it only really surfaced last week Skaifeman but that is one supplier for each brand.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: madbugger on September 03, 2021, 07:35:57 PM
Would long will it be before the teams will just turn up on the Friday, draw a number out of a hat and be allocated a car based on that number. Slap their own stickers on and go racing.  Starting to turn into a very homogenised, controlled series. Not sure how much input the teams are going to have in 2-3 years time
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on September 03, 2021, 07:47:07 PM
Is this the first time we've read this, or have I just missed it? One engine supplier for both Ford/Chev engines?

https://www.motorsport.com/v8supercars/news/walkinshaw-repurpose-supercars-engine-shop/6659133/

I know they said that they wanted to stop the engine arms race, but that can be done through a good rule set, not dictating the supplier.
Walkinshaw, Kelly's, Tickford all lose out. Makes sense why the Grove's didn't get the engine dept, what will the Kelly's use it for?

I think it only really surfaced last week Skaifeman but that is one supplier for each brand.

Sorry, yes, I meant one engine supplier each for Ford/Chev. What I wrote wasn't great English.

Screams Aussie Racing cars to me. That went down the path of hot engines and not-so-hot ones from memory.
Not saying this will eventuate in Supercars at all, but why do we need to go down this path? They're professional race teams, just tighten the rule book up!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on September 09, 2021, 11:35:04 PM
There is so much faffing about on the design of the new Gen 3 Supercars.

For a start, there will be new owners before the car design is finalised and some of them have opinions on the changes.

There are so many classes and designs of cars out there that they could have adopted one and saved a hell of a lot of money, e.g. Bergers DTM and modified GT3 production cars.

There is the TA2 or even the Asian variant which also include Mercedes. (888 are using one for testing.)

When it all boils down, this is a 23 car private travelling circus. That's fine, they can do what they want with Supercars.

Motorsport Australia should let them get on with their private international circus and take the ATCC away and use it for an Australian Championship that genuinely reflects racing in this country, and there are several where a competitor can buy a rule complying car and enter and race.

There was a time when I could enter an ATCC race, and did, with a complying car, and in a 43 car field. Bathurst had many more.

Why are they building a unique design car and not allowing general competitors to enter and race?

Either way, let's get rid of the restriction on entry numbers. There are even Competitors who wish to build a car and enter it in state round and local events (just like Dick Johnson and others were allowed to do).




Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: AlbertM on September 10, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
Supercars is entertainment more then motor racing. First and foremost,  people are trying to make money from it. The more people involved the more shares shrink. Made abundantly clear why they won't issue more RECs.

It's literally a travelling circus. With closer similarities to WWE than pure racing.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on September 10, 2021, 04:18:08 PM
Hopefully new management scrap it and just take on TA2 cars
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on September 10, 2021, 04:27:49 PM
Going by Peter Adderton's latest Instagram post, new management won't be him.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: AlbertM on October 13, 2021, 11:43:22 AM
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/supercars-statement-regarding-gen3/

No one saw that coming. ;)
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: AlbertM on October 13, 2021, 11:45:38 AM
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/date-confirmed-for-gen3-unveiling/

We'll get to see them at Bathurst at least.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: CP on October 13, 2021, 12:22:53 PM
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/supercars-statement-regarding-gen3/

No one saw that coming. ;)

I'm so completely and utterly stunned.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: madbugger on October 13, 2021, 01:28:05 PM
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/supercars-statement-regarding-gen3/

No one saw that coming. ;)

I'm so completely and utterly stunned.

Doesn’t really surprise me. Current management couldn’t organise a root in a brothel with a fist full of fifties.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on October 13, 2021, 02:57:23 PM
I think that's something we all knew.
It's just that Supercars wouldn't admit it to themselves.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on October 13, 2021, 10:11:03 PM
Was always an impossible task to have every team debuting 2022 in the timeframe teams were given. Maybe Dane and Story could’ve pulled it off but the others had no chance.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on November 10, 2021, 09:30:59 PM
The Gen 3 Mustang has had a test run.

Tony Quinn was probably there cleaning the dunnies.

Quote
Ford homologation team Dick Johnson Racing has given its Gen3 specification Mustang prototype its long-awaited first shakedown at Queensland Raceway.

Alex Davison, who is set to pair up with brother Will in this year’s Repco Bathurst 1000, conducted the landmark first test.

Supercars had staff onsite at the test and watched from afar at the Sydney headquarters, live streaming and data-sharing throughout the test.

“It’s definitely been an exciting day for everyone at Supercars, and the rest of the Gen3 steering group, who have worked tirelessly to get to this point,” Burgess told the official Supercars website.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/11/10/gen3-ford-mustang-prototype-cuts-first-laps/

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/11/10/why-cleaning-toilets-was-first-port-of-call-for-quinn-at-qr/


Later PS.

The Mustang ran with a paddle shift.

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/gen3-mustang-supercar-debuted-with-paddle-shift/


Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: REM on December 03, 2021, 08:02:21 AM
The cars look really, really good!!

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/12/03/supercars-reveals-gen3-ford-mustang-and-chevrolet-camaro/?fbclid=IwAR2s5gSuTABcYLdvO9Yh15ZBlwgFRM0okgaeNWHppZ_Kp6Rz1Rul1Ua0fcQ
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: AlbertM on December 03, 2021, 09:00:03 AM
Cars look great.  Don't know why but the US flag draped over the Chev has put me off. Especially when they are trying to promote this as an evolution of our racing series with the Aussie built cars in the background.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on December 03, 2021, 09:22:37 AM
I hadn't noticed the flag. I just though both liveries were rather poor.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on December 03, 2021, 11:37:28 AM
Cars look good. Seamer ****ed up again, couldn’t even reveal the final product! Piss poor form
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on December 03, 2021, 02:20:04 PM
They show themselves in the foot with the rollout today.

Squabbling like kids infront of the Ford and GM bigwigs, and Seamer telling the press to stop asking curly questions about a major topic of the car because Seamer wants people to talk about how good the cars look

Supercars will never be taken seriously until they stop trying to micro-manage their own press
Title: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on December 03, 2021, 04:29:01 PM
Cars are awesome in person.
Camaro is quieter but sweeter. Mustang is far louder and raspier. It’ll likely be evened up noise wise. Both sound fantastic.

Everyone has been raving about the S5000’s. Loud doesn’t mean good.

Haven’t read the riff-raff around it yet, but here’s some images.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211203/fa1fd0cb1e13b63f29b8497cb0d29351.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211203/67d930052d1b11e3a1d44a240f803ff9.jpg)
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on December 03, 2021, 05:48:11 PM
Cars are awesome in person.
Camaro is quieter but sweeter. Mustang is far louder and raspier. It’ll likely be evened up noise wise. Both sound fantastic.

Everyone has been raving about the S5000’s. Loud doesn’t mean good.

Haven’t read the riff-raff around it yet, but here’s some images.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211203/fa1fd0cb1e13b63f29b8497cb0d29351.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211203/67d930052d1b11e3a1d44a240f803ff9.jpg)

Definitely best looking designs for quite some time. Will be happy to see the back of the current abortions.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Sonic on December 03, 2021, 06:17:02 PM
both cars looked decent on track.... the Muzzie with no muffler sounded great but of course will be changed as tracks with db enforcements will have the thing turned off before it even hit the track.... Chev looked the goods...

as to the paint schemes Stevo, remember they did exactly the same with the previous introductions... the cars then were a pretty bland look too as I recall.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Ospif1 on December 03, 2021, 06:26:58 PM
Quite a bit of discussion around about the chassis flex on these things, will make it interesting from a setup point of view and getting them dialled in.  They look great though, can't wait to see them all stickered up.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on December 03, 2021, 07:53:23 PM
How cool do both cars look. The Mustang looks great, correct proportions makes such a big difference.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on December 03, 2021, 08:57:35 PM
A commentator, unknown name to me, stated that the cars would be cheaper to run therefore there would be more cars and more drivers.

Wow! he must know something others don't.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Brazen on December 03, 2021, 10:19:18 PM
They look so fricking good... I'll wait until the final engine and exhaust regs are confirmed to have an opinion on that but man they really do look the part
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on December 04, 2021, 01:48:30 AM
A commentator, unknown name to me, stated that the cars would be cheaper to run therefore there would be more cars and more drivers.

Wow! he must know something others don't.

About which bit?

The myth that these new cars are cheaper, or the myth they will expand the number of entries?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on December 04, 2021, 02:02:52 AM
A commentator, unknown name to me, stated that the cars would be cheaper to run therefore there would be more cars and more drivers.

Wow! he must know something others don't.

About which bit?

The myth that these new cars are cheaper, or the myth they will expand the number of entries?

The highlighted bit.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on December 04, 2021, 08:13:42 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211203/d7d1447578ca92053046e33047e93f9d.jpg)
How much better does the Mustang look!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: CP on December 04, 2021, 01:30:40 PM
Are the paddle shifters really that big of an issue?

If the new cars do what they say on the tin and create a great spectacle, then I think people will overlook how the gears are changed.

Besides, there is a great, hidden benefit to moving to panel shifters. It'll ease the transition for overseas drivers to our cars for the enduros.

If that lures the Jordan Taylor's and Brendon Hartleys of the world to our shores for the Bathurst 1000, then isn't that a great thing?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on December 04, 2021, 03:24:19 PM
Are the paddle shifters really that big of an issue?

If the new cars do what they say on the tin and create a great spectacle, then I think people will overlook how the gears are changed.

Besides, there is a great, hidden benefit to moving to panel shifters. It'll ease the transition for overseas drivers to our cars for the enduros.

If that lures the Jordan Taylor's and Brendon Hartleys of the world to our shores for the Bathurst 1000, then isn't that a great thing?

They shouldn’t be, but Supercars themselves allowed it to become an issue.

They could have shut Percat down in January and everyone would have been used to it by now
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on December 04, 2021, 07:56:38 PM
Are the paddle shifters really that big of an issue?

If the new cars do what they say on the tin and create a great spectacle, then I think people will overlook how the gears are changed.

Besides, there is a great, hidden benefit to moving to panel shifters. It'll ease the transition for overseas drivers to our cars for the enduros.

If that lures the Jordan Taylor's and Brendon Hartleys of the world to our shores for the Bathurst 1000, then isn't that a great thing?

I couldn’t care about international drivers coming over, I’d rather see young Aussies fill the seats.

The spectacle would be better with H-patterns as the cars would actually be harder to drive especially in a shoot out but they aren’t so no big deal to me.

Paddle shift would actually give them more car control as they’d always have both hand on the wheel in my opinion so if it’s the simplest cheapest way then so be it.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: AlbertM on December 04, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
In theory, by removing a skill level driving the cars, you should be able to close the gap between drivers. Closer racing, different winners..In theory.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on December 05, 2021, 12:53:18 AM
If Gen 3 won't be raced until 2023, will Ford be able to update the body to the new Mustang 2022?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: madbugger on December 05, 2021, 07:40:10 AM
In theory, by removing a skill level driving the cars, you should be able to close the gap between drivers. Closer racing, different winners..In theory.

Let’s take it a step further then and just run it as an online series. Lot less expense for team owners, better for the environment, open to anyone, regardless of financial circumstances, and heaps more different winners.

Of course, there will need to be control everything so that everyone has an identical setup, to take away any chance that it is the equipment that is the winning factor. Can’t have someone with a lighter seat winning now, can we?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: REM on December 05, 2021, 08:00:13 AM
If Gen 3 won't be raced until 2023, will Ford be able to update the body to the new Mustang 2022?

I was wondering this exact point!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Ospif1 on December 05, 2021, 10:46:57 AM
If Gen 3 won't be raced until 2023, will Ford be able to update the body to the new Mustang 2022?
I imagine they will, however it will trigger aero parity testing again which is costly and time consuming.  I would be surprised if they ran the update in 23 for that reason.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on December 05, 2021, 10:53:01 AM
If Gen 3 won't be raced until 2023, will Ford be able to update the body to the new Mustang 2022?
I imagine they will, however it will trigger aero parity testing again which is costly and time consuming.  I would be surprised if they ran the update in 23 for that reason.

Then they need to plan for it now.
Both Supercars and Ford would have rocks in their head to start with a car already superseded - especially when the other on the grid already is!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Ospif1 on December 05, 2021, 11:05:21 AM
If Gen 3 won't be raced until 2023, will Ford be able to update the body to the new Mustang 2022?
I imagine they will, however it will trigger aero parity testing again which is costly and time consuming.  I would be surprised if they ran the update in 23 for that reason.

Then they need to plan for it now.
Both Supercars and Ford would have rocks in their head to start with a car already superseded - especially when the other on the grid already is!
The issue will be when the facelift is finalised and when the moulds can be completed. 
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on December 14, 2021, 08:57:46 AM
If Gen 3 won't be raced until 2023, will Ford be able to update the body to the new Mustang 2022?
I imagine they will, however it will trigger aero parity testing again which is costly and time consuming.  I would be surprised if they ran the update in 23 for that reason.

Then they need to plan for it now.
Both Supercars and Ford would have rocks in their head to start with a car already superseded - especially when the other on the grid already is!

Looks like some of the higher ups at Ford read the forum:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/12/14/new-look-for-gen3-ford-mustang-before-2023/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on December 14, 2021, 11:17:11 PM
If Gen 3 won't be raced until 2023, will Ford be able to update the body to the new Mustang 2022?
I imagine they will, however it will trigger aero parity testing again which is costly and time consuming.  I would be surprised if they ran the update in 23 for that reason.

Then they need to plan for it now.
Both Supercars and Ford would have rocks in their head to start with a car already superseded - especially when the other on the grid already is!

Looks like some of the higher ups at Ford read the forum:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/12/14/new-look-for-gen3-ford-mustang-before-2023/

Bit of a surprise considering the thing they let run round the last few years.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Joe5619 on December 15, 2021, 04:59:19 PM
The cars look great, lets hope these cars create better racing as the lack of overtaking with the current cars is bad.. A shame we have go another season with the current ones.

I just hope they can pull some miracle out of their arse & sign a 3rd manufacture & they are on the gird for the start of 2023!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on December 23, 2021, 07:44:00 PM
A major advantage of Gen 3 is the standardised front end componentry.

It is something that should have been done with the previous major change, but some of the teams wanted to keep their own developed design.

The result has been a years long race to upgrade at a significant cost in money and time. It was not always successful.

Here is one case in point:

Quote
“For us at Bathurst, it was the best chassis that I have ever had there, the car was a rocketship.”

Besides Woodward’s hard work, Hazelwood said a mid-season test had been useful in rediscovering his one-lap pace and also revealed a crucial part change that was made.

I actually reverted back to an older spec part in the front of the car to try to help me get some feel back in the car,” he said.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/12/23/reverting-to-old-part-helped-turn-hazelwoods-2021-around/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on December 24, 2021, 05:24:49 AM
A major advantage of Gen 3 is the standardised front end componentry.

It is something that should have been done with the previous major change, but some of the teams wanted to keep their own developed design.

The result has been a years long race to upgrade at a significant cost in money and time. It was not always successful.

Here is one case in point:

Quote
“For us at Bathurst, it was the best chassis that I have ever had there, the car was a rocketship.”

Besides Woodward’s hard work, Hazelwood said a mid-season test had been useful in rediscovering his one-lap pace and also revealed a crucial part change that was made.

I actually reverted back to an older spec part in the front of the car to try to help me get some feel back in the car,” he said.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/12/23/reverting-to-old-part-helped-turn-hazelwoods-2021-around/

Standardising more parts is never an “advantage” of regulations
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on December 24, 2021, 10:24:59 AM
Cost reduction from standardized parts could make it viable to put all races on that media paid for by advertisers.
Together with a reduction in aero Gen 3 should be great.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on January 12, 2022, 10:46:21 PM
I have been pondering about the enormous time. money and energy expended by Todd Kelly to re-invent the Mustang. There were already two significant versions.

The Tickford cars have arguably been the best in the field with the Mustang and even the preceding Falcon. Indications are that Tickford were willing to assist, presumably for a fee, Todd to build his new cars to replace the Nissans.

DJR/Penske had, again arguably, had the best organisation, aided by a seriously superb driver. I cannot recall any significant offer of assistance to Todd. The cars they sold to MSR were, frankly, uncompetitive duds when withot DJR/Penske assistance.

The Cooldrive team, on the other hand had some success, with Tickford based cars, engines and assistance.

Had Todd been able to simply purchase Tickford's cars, or their design, and if he had not stubbornly decided that he had to re-invent the Ford Racing engine, The team would have saved, in my estimation, a lot of money and been initially more competitive.

End of nostalgia!

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture.

Has Gen 3 been in place, the Kelly family would have saved a lot of money on cars and probably been more competritive.

All teams, theoretically can buy a competitive racecar as a starting point and know that the vendor will not suddenly make a major engineering improvement in the cars that the supply team races.

All we then have, as a variance, is the quality of drivers and engineers.

888 seem to be the go to team to recruit well trained engineering staff with many of their engineers commencing from University and being trained. 888 also assist. at a price, other GM teams. Will DJR, for example be willing to assist their near neighbours, MSR????
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: REM on January 13, 2022, 06:22:02 PM
I am not at all sure that I would rate the Tickford cars over the DJR cars...since the chainsaw to the package (during and) end of 2019, the Tickford Stangs are the quickest Fords at Bathurst (but even this is not quick enough to run with leading ZB's since 19), however the DJR cars look more tunable over a range of tracks. Would you really want to race a Tickford Stang at SMP? The Slade car is interesting, Mr Hogan was quite damning of the calibre of the equipment supplied with the former Tickford car and it was subsequently largely refitted.....where those bits came from.....who knows? But  on more than one occasion in 2021 the Slade car was significantly quicker than all the Tickford cars who looked hopelessly lost, ala SMP again....the Slade car again seemingly more tunable...

Re the Kelly's, if memory serves, the plan was to offer customer cars and engineering at some point....hence the go it alone....

Where the future is with Grove who knows? But don't the Kellys still own and run the engineering side of things? Maybe the game was a long one.....and possibly still could be with Gen 3?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on January 13, 2022, 07:51:51 PM
I was looking at the advantages of Gen 3 and the ways that costs will be contained, not the disadvantages of pre-Gen 3.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on January 14, 2022, 05:03:46 PM

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on January 15, 2022, 07:16:28 AM

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set

I prefer that to avoid another 1988 ATCC.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: REM on January 15, 2022, 08:01:55 AM

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set

I prefer that to avoid another 1988 ATCC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciouKbeTEro
Really!! Better than this!!!!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on January 15, 2022, 01:00:44 PM
Apparently

https://www.v8central.com/index.php?topic=101.msg1710#msg1710
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on January 15, 2022, 10:34:20 PM

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set

I prefer that to avoid another 1988 ATCC.

1988, a year where every round bar one featured more than the current grid of 25 cars, Bathurst had close to 50 ….. more than two manufacturers too
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on January 16, 2022, 06:21:18 AM

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set

I prefer that to avoid another 1988 ATCC.

1988, a year where every round bar one featured more than the current grid of 25 cars, Bathurst had close to 50 ….. more than two manufacturers too

"promised so much and delivered so very little"
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: madbugger on January 16, 2022, 07:58:10 AM

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set

I prefer that to avoid another 1988 ATCC.

1988, a year where every round bar one featured more than the current grid of 25 cars, Bathurst had close to 50 ….. more than two manufacturers too

"promised so much and delivered so very little"

I dunno, Ford Sierra won every race, DJR won 8 of 9 races, DJ and JB 1st and 2nd in championship, delivered pretty well for me ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Skip on January 16, 2022, 12:10:58 PM
Supercars please avoid giving petulant Pete a rec at all costs!!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: madbugger on January 16, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Supercars please avoid giving petulant Pete a rec at all costs!!

Agreed, nothing good could come from it
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on January 16, 2022, 08:47:44 PM
Quote from: djr18fan
"promised so much and delivered so very little"

Compared to 1987….

Perhaps read the threads rather than just look for headlines
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: djr18fan on January 17, 2022, 04:26:30 AM
Quote from: djr18fan
"promised so much and delivered so very little"

Compared to 1987….

Perhaps read the threads rather than just look for headlines
f
Sorry, I'll quote your whole sentence. "[size=78%]Has there been a year in ATCC/Supercars history that promised so much and delivered so very little?".[/size][/size][size=78%]  Then in your summary you describe it as a disappointing year. I think that's clearly a condemnation of 1988.[/size][size=78%]

All because there were few control parts allowing one car to dominate.
The days of domination by one car and or one team were only great for the fans of that car brand or team.


Bring on Gen 3.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on January 17, 2022, 09:10:37 AM
Quote from: djr18fan
"promised so much and delivered so very little"

Compared to 1987….

Perhaps read the threads rather than just look for headlines
f
Sorry, I'll quote your whole sentence. "[size=78%]Has there been a year in ATCC/Supercars history that promised so much and delivered so very little?".[/size][/size][size=78%]  Then in your summary you describe it as a disappointing year. I think that's clearly a condemnation of 1988.[/size][size=78%]

All because there were few control parts allowing one car to dominate.
The days of domination by one car and or one team were only great for the fans of that car brand or team.


Bring on Gen 3.

Compared to 1987, where all the comparisons in that thread come from.

Given the grid sizes in 1988, and the following year, domination by one team didn’t seem to scare any competitors or sponsors away.

The rules are so controlled now even the grid size can’t grow
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on February 06, 2022, 07:02:24 PM
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/why-supercars-is-keeping-stick-shift-for-gen3/

Seems like Supercars finally listened to the drivers and fans  8)  8)  8)
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on February 07, 2022, 09:10:08 AM
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/why-supercars-is-keeping-stick-shift-for-gen3/

Seems like Supercars finally listened to the drivers and fans  8)  8)  8)

Good move IMO.
Probably only delaying the inevitable though.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: CP on February 07, 2022, 10:07:27 AM
Surely there are bigger issues within the sport other than how gears are changed?

The hysteria around it all just seemed a bit over the top.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Sonic on February 07, 2022, 11:33:26 AM
Surely there are bigger issues within the sport other than how gears are changed?

The hysteria around it all just seemed a bit over the top.

Agreed. But also it is just one further step away from being the Touring Cars that they are purported to be. Some of us still like the skill involved in a H box (hence the interest in the TA2 series I feel) where a driver can make an error and it costs... but is also rewarded when they get it right!

There are way too many 'safety nets' in a Supercar to cover mistakes and the results show on track.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on February 07, 2022, 11:56:05 AM
Switching to paddles would have taken them closer to what touring cars should be.

Retaining a gear lever for the foreseeable future renders them even further down the path of non-touring cars…
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Sonic on February 07, 2022, 12:36:04 PM
Switching to paddles would have taken them closer to what touring cars should be.

Retaining a gear lever for the foreseeable future renders them even further down the path of non-touring cars…

They are much closer to a bespoke sports sedan. They have nothing to do with touring cars.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: mikeamerica84 on February 08, 2022, 12:52:54 AM
I am all for Supercars sticking with the shifter vice the paddles.  Heck, I would like to see the H-pattern come back, but that is wishful thinking.

Who cares if the series does not align with other forms of motorsport.  That is the alluring part of it - the uniqueness.  Kind of like your whole country in general.  An isolated continent that broke off from somewhere zillions of years ago.  Subsequently evolution of many things and beings has now resulted so many unique things and beings that other parts of the world do not have, such as the Aboriginal ways, koalas, the duck-billed platypus, and Paul Morris.  A zillion more years from now research will show that Supercars were amongst those isolated gems.

However, I just read today where you have opened up your borders for international travel for the first time in two years.  Isolation is a fleeting goal.  With that, sooner or later Supercars will more than likely cave to paddles.  I'll continue enjoying this era while I can.

Bring on the start of the racing season.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on April 09, 2022, 08:01:02 PM
Looking at reports of F1 drivers having a taste of almost superseded Supercars made me think. I do occasionally. ;)

Supercars say that they actually own both the Mustang and Camaro prototypes.

Once Gen 3 hits the track, all 25 of them (but hopefully 26), will Supercars still retain the prototypes.

If so, why not allow them to be run at Bathurst for International Superstars from other categories?

They will need to be adopted by an existing team but it is logistically possible.

Along with a couple of other team wildcards, we could see a 30 car grid. Even Porsche have 31.  ;D
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on April 09, 2022, 09:53:29 PM
Not a bad idea.
I've always thought a wildcard at the AGP would be great, adds to the international flavour of the weekend.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on May 25, 2022, 07:50:59 PM
https://www.motorsport.com/v8supercars/news/frustrations-continue-gen3-supercars/10310293/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on May 25, 2022, 09:24:33 PM
Same thing happened for CotF. From memory there was a shortage of VF front bumpers come Clipsal.
The administration has completely shift since then, so no lessons were learnt.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Ospif1 on May 26, 2022, 09:53:30 PM
Definitely one of the most poorly managed motorsport projects in a long time.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on July 28, 2022, 09:21:40 AM
Quote
2024 Ford Mustang Confirmed For Sept. 14 Debut At Detroit Auto Show
Christopher Smith - 1h ago

The seventh-generation Mustang will still pack a V8 punch and offer a six-speed manual transmission.

Just 24 hours after hearing a rumor about the seventh-generation Ford Mustang debuting in September, the word is official. Ford has confirmed the 2024 Mustang will debut on September 14, and the gala is happening in the Motor City at the 2022 North American International Auto Show.

Sometime soon after, we should see the proper Gen 3 Ford body.

I am sure they are well advanced with the design at Ford, but it still doesn't leave a lot of time for comparative testing with the GM version.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/2024-ford-mustang-confirmed-for-sept-14-debut-at-detroit-auto-show/ar-AA102Lf7?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=737e11057b674fb7a8c8b4b74e89b3b3
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on July 29, 2022, 04:48:26 PM
Look something like this? Prefer the S550 personally. Aero shouldn’t be too different.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220729/3a8f3fd64552a63d2f7d2d8fc5dc32a3.jpg)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: CP on August 03, 2022, 09:55:06 AM
Definitely one of the most poorly managed motorsport projects in a long time.

Considering that what they're trying to do is similar to some off the shelf stuff you can buy.

It's almost as if there are GT4 spec Camaros and Mustangs that you can buy, and you could also allow certain engineering freedoms in amongst those cars, as they won't be used for GT4 competition.

Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: LG on August 03, 2022, 10:55:54 AM
Look something like this? Prefer the S550 personally. Aero shouldn’t be too different.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220729/3a8f3fd64552a63d2f7d2d8fc5dc32a3.jpg)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hold my beer!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on August 07, 2022, 10:14:35 AM
There is a significant safety concern that has re-emerged.

Cars with fogged windscreens were a safety hazard.

When they had heated windscreens, fogging could be minimised.

Then the did away with glass and fogging returned with drivers reporting that they are racing blind and at speed, resulting in accidental crashes.

This brings up two issues:

Purely on safety grounds, should drivers badly fogged up be black flagged or sent to the pits to have screens cleared.

From a Gen 3 perspective. Will they incorporate a proper ventilation and anti fogging system in the new cars?

They could even channel hot air to the screen instead of the drivers feet. There is plenty of heat in a Supercar, not just in management. ;D

Here is one example:  https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/never-again-hazelwood-on-teammate-tangle/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on August 08, 2022, 01:31:41 PM
Quote
They could even channel hot air to the screen instead of the drivers feet. There is plenty of heat in a Supercar, not just in management. ;D

That may not be enough to clear a windscreen.
They would need air conditioning to reduce the humidity.
Given how badly these cars interior are sealed too, AC would not be efficient.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: CP on August 08, 2022, 06:22:04 PM
There is a significant safety concern that has re-emerged.

Cars with fogged windscreens were a safety hazard.

When they had heated windscreens, fogging could be minimised.

Then the did away with glass and fogging returned with drivers reporting that they are racing blind and at speed, resulting in accidental crashes.

This brings up two issues:

Purely on safety grounds, should drivers badly fogged up be black flagged or sent to the pits to have screens cleared.

From a Gen 3 perspective. Will they incorporate a proper ventilation and anti fogging system in the new cars?

They could even channel hot air to the screen instead of the drivers feet. There is plenty of heat in a Supercar, not just in management. ;D

Here is one example:  https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/never-again-hazelwood-on-teammate-tangle/

Would it be possible to run demister elements on a perspex screen?

The older cars with glass front windscreens had demister elements.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on August 08, 2022, 07:52:47 PM
Yes I mentioned the glass screen demisters, but:

This is a safety matter. the drivers are, in the main, employees and OC Health and Safety should be a consideration.

Any car with misting restricting the drivers vision should be black flagged. They would do it if a crushed bonnet restricted vision, so why not extreme misting. With in car cameras, they can actually monitor the drivers vision.

However, I don't want that. With Gen 3, they can provide a problem fix.

In other classes they can run for 24 hours in the rain. Surely Australian (and the English, or former English co-ordinator) can match International standards, or even surpass them. See 888 who have an Engineer who worked with Porsche. Would Porsche accept this fogged vision problem????
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on August 26, 2022, 03:53:58 PM
Problem Solved  :D

Quote
Heated windscreens "worked perfectly" in the Gen3 prototypes during wet-weather running at Sandown.

The Gen3 Camaro and Mustang prototypes were lapped in the rain on Monday.

It gave Supercars its best chance yet to test the heated windscreen function, which has been mandated for 2023.

https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/gen3-heated-windscreen-worked-perfectly/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Joe5619 on August 27, 2022, 11:04:29 AM
I can't wait to see the new Mustang in Gen3 trim.. When do we thing this might happen?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on August 27, 2022, 11:42:35 AM
Supposedly Sept 14th is first look of the S650 Mustang road car. So I guess some time after that, but the question is will Ford change the Supercar to the S650 or just race the S550 next year?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Joe5619 on August 28, 2022, 09:41:30 AM
Supposedly Sept 14th is first look of the S650 Mustang road car. So I guess some time after that, but the question is will Ford change the Supercar to the S650 or just race the S550 next year?
Supercars have already confirmed they are racing S650, it's why there has been no aero testing & one of the reasons they delayed the project to next year.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Sonic on August 28, 2022, 01:10:24 PM
re front screen... just wondering... would a rear vent up high for the heated air to escape work? either a 'roof chute' or a vent somewhere in the rear screen area
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on September 15, 2022, 11:29:27 AM
The new Mustang:
(https://media3.speedcafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/crop_eco_DSC08838_2.jpg)

And in Supercar-trim:
(https://media3.speedcafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/All-New-Ford-Mustang-Gen3-Supercar-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on September 15, 2022, 02:51:37 PM
Just wondering.

Is the Gen3 Mustang body a new body or just front and rear updates, but with a lot of carry over Aero bits?

I am sure there are design gurus on the Forum who can tell.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on September 15, 2022, 05:20:08 PM
It’s the 7th generation so should be an all new body.
I would say the aero kit will shift over from the current Gen3 Mustang.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Sonic on September 15, 2022, 06:53:22 PM
the first 'sneak peek' I saw made me think Camaro nose...

this newer one makes me think Audi...
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Ospif1 on September 15, 2022, 08:31:05 PM
GT3 looks reallll nice
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Joe5619 on September 15, 2022, 09:18:30 PM
I’m a little disappointed the all new Mustang looks 98% like the old one..

I do like it though.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: V8SuperRiley on September 16, 2022, 10:50:31 AM
I Like it!

(https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/News_Gen3_4-1024x576.jpg)
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: TheArrow on September 17, 2022, 12:13:20 AM
I’m a little disappointed the all new Mustang looks 98% like the old one..

I do like it though.
If you look at them side by side they're actually quite different. Doesn't look like a single reused panel between the two.

Definitely a strong evolution rather than a revolution in the design, but it's still an all new car. It just keeps a familiar and recognisable shape.

When I first saw it I thought it looked too similar too but when I saw two images side by side, I could clearly see a lot more differences than similarities.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Troy01505 on September 17, 2022, 10:14:22 AM
I like it! ****s all over that hideous thing they are racing round now
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on September 17, 2022, 10:29:32 AM
I like it! ****s all over that hideous thing they are racing round now
Absolutely. New Mustang Supercar looks great.

Though not really a fan of the eco boost model, the GT looks much better.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: stevo qld on September 18, 2022, 07:59:35 PM
Restricting my comments to the design of the front and grille area of the next Gen 3 Mustang:

I consider the current road model to be superior,
and I consider the current racing model to look a lot better.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/09/18/compared-new-and-old-gen3-ford-mustang-supercar/

The GT3 grille looks more like a Camaro than a Mustang. :o
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on September 18, 2022, 08:46:24 PM
Is it really going to have the extra intakes on the front air dam or will they be blanked off? Can’t really tell in the CGI images.  Also I take the functioning heat extractor will be allowed or again it is a blank cosmetic?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Roadways6 on September 19, 2022, 01:40:45 AM
How will a 4-door body shape fit over the Gen3 chassis?

https://boydcoddingtonwheels.com/the-new-camaro-will-be-a-four-door-sedan/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: Joe5619 on September 19, 2022, 07:50:35 AM
Restricting my comments to the design of the front and grille area of the next Gen 3 Mustang:

I consider the current road model to be superior,
and I consider the current racing model to look a lot better.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/09/18/compared-new-and-old-gen3-ford-mustang-supercar/

The GT3 grille looks more like a Camaro than a Mustang. :o
Bit hard to compare a real car with pictures.. I'll wait for the real thing before I make me mind up..

Also the grey road car above this the EcoBoost front, the V8 has a different front bar (God knows why they need 2!).. I think I like the V8 front bar better. Not sure why they modeled the Gen3 car off the Ecoboost front & not the V8 one?
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: V8SuperRiley on October 06, 2022, 02:16:40 PM
How good does this thing look!!

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/10/06/new-mustang-supercar-revealed-at-bathurst/ (https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/10/06/new-mustang-supercar-revealed-at-bathurst/)

(https://media2.speedcafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/New-Mustang-Supercar-revealed-at-Bathurst.jpg)
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on October 06, 2022, 03:30:58 PM
These Gen3 cars are fantastic. Great to see the category take in the design cues needed, only four years too late!!
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: WAU on October 11, 2022, 12:37:57 PM
I like it! ****s all over that hideous thing they are racing round now

I agree. The current Mustang looks worse than an AU and that’s quite an accomplishment.

The Gen 3 Mustang looks really nice. As does the Camaro. Can’t wait to see these cars in their respective liveries on the grid at Newcastle.
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on October 15, 2022, 07:44:45 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221014/21d91ca75b96486e25b86aaac2d5866e.jpg)
The new Mustang Supercar is soo much better. Make the current one even worse than ever before. Can’t wait to see the new one on track and hopefully this one gone. No doubt we’ll still see some in Super2


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: skaifeman on December 02, 2022, 02:48:59 PM
Farking hell.
They've had how many years and a delay?

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/12/02/supercars-admits-gen3-parity-process-incomplete/
Title: Re: Gen 3
Post by: murph_fan51 on December 02, 2022, 04:28:01 PM
Farking hell.
They've had how many years and a delay?

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/12/02/supercars-admits-gen3-parity-process-incomplete/
Good thing there is only 2 manufactures  ;D