Beginning to think the timeline is something like this
October-Ratel can't get anything out of Supercars about the 2022 race or even if the new owners want to proceed with it.
November-Ratel goes rogue and announces March dates to get something happening.That the dates clash with Sebring tells you it was never serious
December-February dates announced but guessing no real contact between Ratel and Supercars
December-Omicron causes postponement of IGTC race in South Africa.Lack of contact reflected in the new dates are 18 days before Bathurst starts.Given a lot of the cars move by boat this is obviously a logistical impossibility
December-Supercars has a contract with Bathurst Council to run a second meeting.A Nationals calendar appears with a NSW TBA round listed for May which would satisfy their obligations
December-12 Hour web site has no details about ticket sales,camp sites,support categories etc.Only 1 entry has made an announcement about contesting the race.
Mid December-After all this Perottet declares freedom day and Covid goes beserk.
January-Stories begin to emerge about race not happening.No confirmation 6 weeks out.
Story floated about 12 Hour in May.For who?The 15 cars that made it to Bathurst in December?Its not happening.
Guessing the new Supercar owners are not keen.Can't find anyone to buy out the race.I'm afraid it is dead.
My second favourite event in Australia after Albert Park.At least the Going Global book will cover the entire GT3 history.Very small consolation.
:(
Hope you're wrong about a 'permanent' death but I doubt 2022 will happen at a minimum.
Would be surprised if nobody wanted to take on the date. Plenty of people want to race there so it would be easy enough to put a meeting together with a grid capacity turnout.
On the point of tickets and camping, previous campsite holders received an e-mail from Bathurst Council three weeks ago regarding campsite sales. They were intending for bookings to start in mid-January
Quote from: Alan59 on January 11, 2022, 03:39:09 PM
Beginning to think the timeline is something like this
October-Ratel can't get anything out of Supercars about the 2022 race or even if the new owners want to proceed with it.
November-Ratel goes rogue and announces March dates to get something happening.That the dates clash with Sebring tells you it was never serious
December-February dates announced but guessing no real contact between Ratel and Supercars
December-Omicron causes postponement of IGTC race in South Africa.Lack of contact reflected in the new dates are 18 days before Bathurst starts.Given a lot of the cars move by boat this is obviously a logistical impossibility
December-Supercars has a contract with Bathurst Council to run a second meeting.A Nationals calendar appears with a NSW TBA round listed for May which would satisfy their obligations
December-12 Hour web site has no details about ticket sales,camp sites,support categories etc.Only 1 entry has made an announcement about contesting the race.
Mid December-After all this Perottet declares freedom day and Covid goes beserk.
January-Stories begin to emerge about race not happening.No confirmation 6 weeks out.
Story floated about 12 Hour in May.For who?The 15 cars that made it to Bathurst in December?Its not happening.
Guessing the new Supercar owners are not keen.Can't find anyone to buy out the race.I'm afraid it is dead.
My second favourite event in Australia after Albert Park.At least the Going Global book will cover the entire GT3 history.Very small consolation.
I hope you're wrong about the "permanent" part of this. It is such an awesome event. If Supercars don't want it, I can see someone else coming in and running it. It's too big of an event now days for it to disappear completely.
Quote from: Kytabu on January 11, 2022, 06:11:01 PM
On the point of tickets and camping, previous campsite holders received an e-mail from Bathurst Council three weeks ago regarding campsite sales. They were intending for bookings to start in mid-January
There is another sign that Supercars want out.Since 2016 they have run the camping.
Maybe the council was hoping someone else would step in.
Highly unlikely to impossible in the current Covid economic climate.The 12 Hour is an expensive race to run and Bathurst is a expensive circuit to operate.At a minimum you need a large field paying large entry fees and a strong base of event sponsorship.
If anyone thinks I am death riding the race the opposite is true.I have been to every 12 Hour race at Bathurst since it started in 1991.It is my second favourite motor sport event in Australia behind only Albert Park.
A glimmer of hope?
https://www.motorsport.com/endurance/news/supercars-sro-committed-2022-bathurst-12-hour/7181656/
Quote from: skaifeman on January 12, 2022, 01:41:42 PM
A glimmer of hope?
https://www.motorsport.com/endurance/news/supercars-sro-committed-2022-bathurst-12-hour/7181656/
Not sure how much credibility to place in this.This would be the 4th press release put out by Ratel about the 12 Hour compared to 0 by Supercars who actually run the meeting.
Also he talks about holding the race possibly in March or April which has been established is impossible for logistical and contractural reasons around circuit hire and competitor availability.As for May checking the European and American GT3 calendars of which Ratel's series are only a small part you might find every weekend is spoken for.
Quote from: Alan59 on January 12, 2022, 03:36:38 PM
Quote from: skaifeman on January 12, 2022, 01:41:42 PM
A glimmer of hope?
https://www.motorsport.com/endurance/news/supercars-sro-committed-2022-bathurst-12-hour/7181656/
Not sure how much credibility to place in this.This would be the 4th press release put out by Ratel about the 12 Hour compared to 0 by Supercars who actually run the meeting.
Also he talks about holding the race possibly in March or April which has been established is impossible for logistical and contractural reasons around circuit hire and competitor availability.As for May checking the European and American GT3 calendars of which Ratel's series are only a small part you might find every weekend is spoken for.
also add in that the 6 hour is on at Easter so you would be putting 2 big events close to each other which would be taxing on the volunteers
May features the Nürburgring 24,rounds of Ratel's Euro GT series,Weathertech series in US,Asian Le Mans,DTM,British GT,Spa WEC..The chance of an international GT race in Australia in May is zero.
Quote from: Alan59 on January 12, 2022, 07:39:26 PM
May features the Nürburgring 24,rounds of Ratel's Euro GT series,Weathertech series in US,Asian Le Mans,DTM,British GT,Spa WEC..The chance of an international GT race in Australia in May is zero.
They're giving it a crack! May 13-15. Ratel says the GT Challenge will be re-jigged to accommodate this.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/01/14/bathurst-12-hour-postponement-confirmed/
Glad to be wrong.I can't see many if any overseas cars being here but that weekend is the best for overseas driver availability.A round of Ratel's Euro GT season scheduled but that's about it.The weekend after is DTM and Asian Le Mans and 1 week after that is Nürburgring 24.2 weeks before is WEC at Spa and from memory week before is Weathertech round.
Even if it finishes up being a mainly local race with a smallish field much better than no race at all.
Quote from: Alan59 on January 14, 2022, 01:17:31 PM
Even if it finishes up being a mainly local race with a smallish field much better than no race at all.
Agreed :D.
They HAD to choose the weekend of my sisters wedding....
She's going to be pissed that I'm missing her special day ;D
Surely, there are a lot of local cars now, with some having older spare cars that could be leased.
If numbers are down, just add another class such as superseded Porsches.
Maybe it is too expensive for additional, mostly amateur, entrants?
Yes there are a lot of older cars.
Yes it is a very expensive race for entrants.
Just adding old cars with Am drivers might help the balance sheet but it does nothing for the spectacle of the race.
What has made this race great is the large number of top flight international GT3 teams and drivers.
Something resembling a glorified combined Aus GT Chship /AMRS GT grid is hardly equivalent.
But like I posted better a lesser race than no race at all.
Quote from: stevo qld on January 15, 2022, 01:49:31 PM
Surely, there are a lot of local cars now, with some having older spare cars that could be leased.
If numbers are down, just add another class such as superseded Porsches.
Maybe it is too expensive for additional, mostly amateur, entrants?
The last five years have seen the organisers prioritise the overseas GT3 entries, and the depth of international cars coming over had effectively scared off a lot of the local "gentlemen" entries, who amongst others things have been put off by the crash & bash sprint race it's become. The damage bill in the last few years has been astonishing.
SRO has said they will likely move to clashing GTWC Europe Sprint event to a new weekend..... an advantage to that being it frees up Valentino Rossi to compete.
Factories can easily ship customer cars here for the likes of MPC or T8 to run, or for teams like WRT to fly in to run them, teams shipping their own regular equipment over will be hard/impossible with this date though.
Drivers shouldn't be an issue as it stands now, unless border entries change again
Well, tickets went on sale this week! So that's happy days for now. Still waiting to hear about the date for the campsites going on sale.
Quote from: kennymiesta on January 15, 2022, 09:54:39 AM
They HAD to choose the weekend of my sisters wedding....
She's going to be pissed that I'm missing her special day ;D
Priorities on point
At least two overseas entries are confirmed for the event
1x Gruppe M Mercedes
1x GPX Martini Racing Porsche
Campsites on sale next week!
McPhillamy campsite sold out in five minutes! Jumped straight on at 11 and the available sites were disappearing very quickly, glad I got my usual two!
Just need some more car announcements now
One assumes we may see a bigger "invitational" class this year
2 weeks out and no entry list.A cause for concern.As far as I can tell there are only 12 entries announced and I'm wondering how many more there are.
Quote from: Alan59 on April 28, 2022, 11:13:09 AM
2 weeks out and no entry list.A cause for concern.As far as I can tell there are only 12 entries announced and I'm wondering how many more there are.
12 is not a good thing. even if that doubles it's still not good to do a 12 hour event for such a small number.
if it truly is that small then you'd have to look at maybe switching it to a number of smaller events. maybe 3x3 hours or something? and spread the support categories over the 3 days.
Quote from: Roadways6 on February 15, 2022, 07:18:28 PM
Just need some more car announcements now
One assumes we may see a bigger "invitational" class this year
Old supercars and Bathurst 6 hour competitors have been approached to run as invitational. Amazing opportunity for teams who wouldn't normally get to run at the 12 hour.
Expectation is for a field of around 25 cars. Not awesome, but better than no event.
Quote from: 36 on April 28, 2022, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: Roadways6 on February 15, 2022, 07:18:28 PM
Just need some more car announcements now
One assumes we may see a bigger "invitational" class this year
Old supercars and Bathurst 6 hour competitors have been approached to run as invitational. Amazing opportunity for teams who wouldn't normally get to run at the 12 hour.
Expectation is for a field of around 25 cars. Not awesome, but better than no event.
I would lean to better to not have the event than mar it with a 25 car field.
Supercars is bad enough for 6 hours with that many.
Although on the plus side it makes me feel better about not being able to make it due to the clash in Vic.
I doubt too many of the 6 hour teams would join in having only just completed their own event, and so close to this one, the cars would not be up for another big event so soon and neither would the teams be prepared financially for such a big undertaking!
As for the old Supercars, while they may well be able to do the distance, I don't know that even they would be able to pull it together that quickly to join the event... especially with many of them in private hands since leaving the SC fold.
The closer we get to the event the more I hope that it doesn't fall over because of where it has landed this year.
I think if they were going to cancel they would have long before this.The small entry has been obvious since the date was announced and it became apparent at least a month ago that the entry was critically small.
Contractural obligations to Bathurst Council and Ratel complicate any cancellation.Just hope it bounces back next February.What is happening in 2 weeks time is not a sustainable event.
18 GT cars and 2 Marc's.Better than it might have been.Better than no 12 Hour at all.
Hopefully back to normal next February.
Quote from: Alan59 on May 05, 2022, 03:11:00 PM
18 GT cars and 2 Marc's.Better than it might have been.Better than no 12 Hour at all.
Hopefully back to normal next February.
I disagree... and am kinda glad now that I won't be able to get there.
20 cars for 12 hours (less attrition) isn't a good thing.
I do think a modified event for this year would have been a better idea, even maybe to drop the main show to a lesser enduro due to the small numbers and get in an extra category or give those already entered an extra race.
I prefer the way it is.This is a much better quality entry than the first 2 GT3 years in 2011 and 2012.
Turning it into 2 3 Hour races or some other non alternative format would be a bigger disappointment for me.The magic of this event is once around the clock at an amazing circuit.
Although things like the Am format and timed pit stops are not to my taste there is still a good chance this might be a compelling race.
My next big wish is dry weather at something above freezing point.
It is not unusual for overseas teams to cancel their entry closer to the race, or 2 car teams to suddenly become a 1 car team.
Then there are possible non-starters due to non-cured problems (eg Ambrose Mustang recently)
Add a couple of the drivers trying to move the safety fencing further back or bounce off another car i practice or even pre-event practice.
It seems likely that the starters will be about 15 to 18 and the finishers 10 to 12.
I hope not, but is a huge effort and expense required to staff the racetrack for a single race with a small field.
Quote from: stevo qld on May 05, 2022, 05:13:06 PM
It is not unusual for overseas teams to cancel their entry closer to the race, or 2 car teams to suddenly become a 1 car team.
Then there are possible non-starters due to non-cured problems (eg Ambrose Mustang recently)
Add a couple of the drivers trying to move the safety fencing further back or bounce off another car i practice or even pre-event practice.
It seems likely that the starters will be about 15 to 18 and the finishers 10 to 12.
I hope not, but is a huge effort and expense required to staff the racetrack for a single race with a small field.
on the plus side for the flaggies few entrants means it will hopefully be an easier event for them.
Quote from: Sonic on May 05, 2022, 07:49:25 PM
Quote from: stevo qld on May 05, 2022, 05:13:06 PM
It is not unusual for overseas teams to cancel their entry closer to the race, or 2 car teams to suddenly become a 1 car team.
Then there are possible non-starters due to non-cured problems (eg Ambrose Mustang recently)
Add a couple of the drivers trying to move the safety fencing further back or bounce off another car i practice or even pre-event practice.
It seems likely that the starters will be about 15 to 18 and the finishers 10 to 12.
I hope not, but is a huge effort and expense required to staff the racetrack for a single race with a small field.
on the plus side for the flaggies few entrants means it will hopefully be an easier event for them.
I hope it will be a very very easy day for the safety car driver to the point they are nearly redundant.Realistically it is the wrong circuit for that though.
here is the TV viewing times.
https://www.supercars.com/news/bathurst12hour/how-to-watch-the-2022-bathurst-12-hour/
It is very wet here in Brisbane, The alleged "Sunshine State" so I will watch some.
I hope all drivers and officials have a safe and enjoyable weekend.
It is also very wet here in Bathurst ;D.
Weather is actually not too bad this morning. Overcast but not too dark.
There was fog on the Mountain when we arrived at 2:30 yesterday so it will be interesting to see how many full sessions we actually get in.
Really looking forward to the top 10.
Enjoy the weekend Ky, hope you took your rain jacket. Last years 1000 was touted for 100mm+ of rain, and it rained for all of 10mins on the Thursday... we packed nothing but wet weather gear :o ;D.
Don't need the rain jacket at the moment! Didn't bring my hat or sunnies down to the Elbow though :o. I still don't think we'll be as lucky weather-wise as we were in December, but very happy to at least have it dry this morning!
(https://i.ibb.co/KGftPDy/20220513-102952.jpg)
Hoping all of the cars make it safely through practice and qualifying and we get all 20 on the grid for Sunday.
Arrived this morning.First thing noticeable is how strong the crowd is.I thought it would be tiny but isn't too much different to past years at least across the top of the mountain.
I think that shows the level of affection and fandom this race has developed.
Also give me that 2x15 minute final qualifying over a 1 car on the track shootout anytime.Hopefully they will keep that in the years ahead.Also hopefully they will never feel obliged to use the lucky dog again.
Given the chronic unreliability MPC Audi's have had in this race in the past I would normally favour one of those 888 run cars but I'm not sure their Am's are up to it.
What I have noticed is that there are eligible cars sitting in garages in Australia. Someone needs an Audi replacement. That's OK, there are unused cars that are eligible and can be updated. Need a replacement for a crashed Mercedes. That's OK there is one in the country that can be purchased as a replacement, possibly more.
I wonder how many of Tony Quinn's Cars he still has that could be run. How many does Scotty Taylor have?
It is difficult to total the cars as some were leased and returned overseas or just become an ornament in someone's Bar or Shed.
There are quite a few eligible cars, even old Supercars and Marc cars that are eligible.
Is it the sheer expense of wearing out a car for 12 hours running and the need for a rebuild even if not crashed?
Regardless, only a small portion are running in the 12 hour this weekend.
Been watching since 5.00 this morning, with a 90 minute break to watch Insiders in the ABC
Thinking about going next year
God they have ****ed up the rules this year!!
Gotta say, been really disappointed with the coverage quality this weekend. So many incidents have been missed because whoever is controlling the cameras weren't paying attention or the camera was just aimed at the apex.
Not sure if it's the same crew as Supercars usually use but it's definitely not been up to par...
What I will say is that it's been surprisingly not boring with so few cars. By no means has it been an exciting or interesting race, but it has definitely kept my attention for the most part throughout the day. It's been on in the background and I've found myself stopping what I'm doing to watch it more often than not.
It is nothing compared to previous years (2020 being one of the best) but it's certainly not the snoozefest I was expecting.
Edit: I think I spoke too soon, this last 2hrs have been a real challenge to stay interested.
Quote from: TheArrow on May 15, 2022, 01:56:40 PM
Edit: I think I spoke too soon, this last 2hrs have been a real challenge to stay interested.
I thought it was quite a nice change to have a race that wasn't so reliant on building your race around a safety car every hour.
I know the older bunch would've got full Woody's over it feeling like an old school enduro, whereas some of us kids would've found it boring because the safety car filled ones are the type of Bathurst enduros we've grown up with.
A couple of downers were that qualifying session. I get the reasons why it was changed, but a 30 minute session for the Top 10 would've been way better and less confusing than what we had. Also MPC seem to have a knack of screwing themselves through attrition or strategy. It's like the only way Audi can win the 12 Hour is in a car run by Joest, Phoenix or WRT.
Can we keep the earlier start time for next year?
Extra night time running is cool as ****.
Quote from: Alan59 on May 14, 2022, 08:57:42 PM
Arrived this morning.First thing noticeable is how strong the crowd is.I thought it would be tiny but isn't too much different to past years at least across the top of the mountain.
I think that shows the level of affection and fandom this race has developed.
Also give me that 2x15 minute final qualifying over a 1 car on the track shootout anytime.Hopefully they will keep that in the years ahead.Also hopefully they will never feel obliged to use the lucky dog again.
Given the chronic unreliability MPC Audi's have had in this race in the past I would normally favour one of those 888 run cars but I'm not sure their Am's are up to it.
When the chronic MPC Bathurst unreliability didn't touch one of their cars then the most knuckleheaded lack of strategy I think I have ever seen took out their chances.Everyone knew that an Am couldn't do more than an hour and had to basically be taken out of the car at every pit stop.It was even repeated on the PA about a hundred times across the weekend.Yet MPC forgot about this with 2 cars and quite possibly cost 74 the win.
If Audi want to ever win this race again they need to bring out a Euro team again.
Yasser Shahin didn't do himself any favours either.
Ignoring blue flags, passing cars under safety cars.
Quote from: CP on May 16, 2022, 06:59:36 PM
Yasser Shahin didn't do himself any favours either.
Ignoring blue flags, passing cars under safety cars.
For someone with his experience, it was surprising and disappointing...