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Supercars Australia => Repco Supercars Championship => Topic started by: mikeamerica84 on March 08, 2023, 02:06:48 PM

Title: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: mikeamerica84 on March 08, 2023, 02:06:48 PM
Allow this Yank to pick up the 1 wood and tee the 2023 Supercars off season right down the middle of the fairway.

Oh.  Wait.  It looks like inclement weather/rain is in the forecast.  Could be a banana slice off into the trees.  I'll take a mulligan if that's okay with you.

But the country club is open for 2023!  New Gen 3 cars!  Parity in question!  Street course!  Those cool coal freighters sailing in and out of the channel!  Nobby's Head!

Let us raise our glasses and celebrate our fortune here on our planet!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Sonic on March 08, 2023, 02:16:52 PM
anyone want to take a punt on what the changes will be between the Sat and Sun race while they are still figuring out what the cars are supposed to be?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: skaifeman on March 08, 2023, 04:18:43 PM
Quote from: Sonic on March 08, 2023, 02:16:52 PM
anyone want to take a punt on what the changes will be between the Sat and Sun race while they are still figuring out what the cars are supposed to be?

Don't think there'll be anything overnight. I fully expect if before the AGP though.
Really looking forward to the weekend of racing. New cars and potentially a new status quo, hopefully earnt and not some parity debate!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Sonic on March 08, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
I'll have a look for highlights at some point if they are out there. I'll be flat out for the weekend at Island Classic which is a huge event and well worth going to if you happen to be in Vic :)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: murph_fan51 on March 08, 2023, 09:01:07 PM
Quote from: Sonic on March 08, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
I'll have a look for highlights at some point if they are out there. I'll be flat out for the weekend at Island Classic which is a huge event and well worth going to if you happen to be in Vic :)
Seems Supercars ramped up their YouTube presence in the last year or so.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: meha on March 09, 2023, 08:53:35 AM
Quote from: Sonic on March 08, 2023, 02:16:52 PM
anyone want to take a punt on what the changes will be between the Sat and Sun race while they are still figuring out what the cars are supposed to be?

Ah but we have been assured that the cars have achieved parity.  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: skaifeman on March 09, 2023, 09:04:45 AM
Quote from: Sonic on March 08, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
I'll have a look for highlights at some point if they are out there. I'll be flat out for the weekend at Island Classic which is a huge event and well worth going to if you happen to be in Vic :)

Was going to head down as crew for the '77 Bathurst pole sitter, after finally ducking and weaving to get it within the period reg's.
Decided against it as the chance of rain and a 6mo wait on wet's became apparent!

Enjoy the weekend!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: mikeamerica84 on March 09, 2023, 12:56:55 PM
Have they done anything to the circuit since the series last raced there?  New pavement/resurfacing?  Tweaking corners?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: skaifeman on March 10, 2023, 10:36:03 AM
Quote from: mikeamerica84 on March 09, 2023, 12:56:55 PM
Have they done anything to the circuit since the series last raced there?  New pavement/resurfacing?  Tweaking corners?

Just the 12m addition which was implemented for the 2019 event:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/01/newcastle-500-track-build-begins/

This weekend they run on the new softer tyres, opposed to the 2019 spec.

Practice 1 starts at 11:15am track time.
Qualy on Saturday, followed by a Top 10. Same for Sunday. Race start at 3:20pm both days.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: SetonFan on March 10, 2023, 11:29:43 AM
These new TV graphics are a real step backwards - hard to read from a distance (especially when they are in the pits when it's nearly impossible).
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Kytabu on March 10, 2023, 12:05:51 PM
Quote from: SetonFan on March 10, 2023, 11:29:43 AM
These new TV graphics are a real step backwards - hard to read from a distance (especially when they are in the pits when it's nearly impossible).
They are woeful. And to think that someone probably got paid a lot to come up with that.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: SetonFan on March 10, 2023, 05:13:33 PM
Interesting day - glad that there weren't too many gremlins or incidents. Looks like not too many surprises in the pecking order but certainly will be a few capable of springing a surprise tomorrow.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 10, 2023, 05:30:03 PM
Quote from: SetonFan on March 10, 2023, 11:29:43 AM
These new TV graphics are a real step backwards - hard to read from a distance (especially when they are in the pits when it's nearly impossible).
Agree... When they are in the pits, you can't read it.. How do things like this get approved & make it our screens?


The cars look great, bring on the rest of the weekend.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: TheArrow on March 10, 2023, 05:35:43 PM
Apparently the graphics aren't supposed to be like that and should be fixed in time for tomorrow.

And yeah, it seems like all the build up to a shaken up pecking order has been for nothing. I know it's just been 3 practice sessions and no racing yet, but so far it's much the same.

Hopefully the racing improves at least and we get some variety there.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Brazen on March 10, 2023, 07:28:24 PM
Quote from: TheArrow on March 10, 2023, 05:35:43 PM
Apparently the graphics aren't supposed to be like that and should be fixed in time for tomorrow.

Did they say this did they? Must have missed it
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: TheArrow on March 10, 2023, 07:29:22 PM
Quote from: Brazen on March 10, 2023, 07:28:24 PM
Quote from: TheArrow on March 10, 2023, 05:35:43 PM
Apparently the graphics aren't supposed to be like that and should be fixed in time for tomorrow.

Did they say this did they? Must have missed it

Twitter
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Sonic on March 10, 2023, 08:36:56 PM
doesn't sound like I missed a whole lot at Newy today. mostly uneventful at the Island for the Historics too.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: hsv8fan on March 10, 2023, 09:35:12 PM
Well this is a completely different response from them compared to a twiiter announcement i saw on a different page.
Telling everyone to "#get over it"  A lot more than "several viewers" aren't happy.

"Supercars will implement a fix for its new television graphics in time for Saturday action at the Thrifty Newcastle 500.

The championship debuted a new graphics package on the opening day of the 2023 season, in conjunction with the debut of the Gen3 race cars in competition, and consistent with its new marketing campaign.

The change was met with frustration by several viewers, however, with certain design elements making driver names difficult to read.

While the new package appeared to have a number of teething problems, the biggest gripe was with how drivers were denoted as being in pit lane."

Their name on the 'totem pole' was not only shown in a light grey box but written in grey also, making it close to impossible to read.

A tweet from Supercars' official Twitter account earlier today advised, "Supercars is aware of an error with the new graphics package which will be amended this evening in time for tomorrow's action."

Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 10, 2023, 09:38:04 PM
What was the actual telecast like. From the highlight videos I watched on the Supercars site, the camera's were jumping around all over the place like they were hand held.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: mikeamerica84 on March 11, 2023, 02:49:09 AM
Just finished watching a bit.  Graphics and bouncing cameras aside, I noticed (maybe remembered?) the porches on the outside of Turn 9, which is now Turn 8 (?), high enough to see over the (fake) signage.  A couple of those porches were not enclosed but open air.  No one was on them.

I think we all remember a few years back when McLaughlin had the bug wreck at the Gold Coast during the race and a damper would up on one of the balconies.  These porches at Turn 8 looked half awesome/half scary.

Can Supercars, or the city dictate to not use them for safety purposes?  Seems like if it is your house you should be able to do as you please.

On a different note, as I watch the practices, a far cry in global weather from the March snow here to there.

(https://i.postimg.cc/vZWQRbMH/Snow.jpg)

Be glad you are there.  :)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 11, 2023, 08:26:11 AM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 10, 2023, 09:38:04 PM
What was the actual telecast like. From the highlight videos I watched on the Supercars site, the camera's were jumping around all over the place like they were hand held.
You most likely saw the in car on helmet cameras, there are terrible..

It didn't work in the 00's (or was it the 90's) when Seton had one, why did they think it would work now? Add they have 6 of them on 6 different drivers.. O the serenity :)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 11:02:34 AM
Talking about the track cameras.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: TheArrow on March 11, 2023, 11:40:20 AM
Camaro's topping all sessions so far, including the test day...
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 11:42:48 AM
I'd say 0.037sec between the top Chev & Ford is about as close as one can realistically get.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: TheArrow on March 11, 2023, 11:50:14 AM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 11:42:48 AM
I'd say 0.037sec between the top Chev & Ford is about as close as one can realistically get.
But it's more fun to complain about it being unfair.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 11:58:07 AM
Quote from: TheArrow on March 11, 2023, 11:50:14 AM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 11:42:48 AM
I'd say 0.037sec between the top Chev & Ford is about as close as one can realistically get.
But it's more fun to complain about it being unfair.
Is it? I'd feel pretty pathetic if I was still complaining.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: TheArrow on March 11, 2023, 12:02:28 PM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 11:58:07 AM
Quote from: TheArrow on March 11, 2023, 11:50:14 AM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 11:42:48 AM
I'd say 0.037sec between the top Chev & Ford is about as close as one can realistically get.
But it's more fun to complain about it being unfair.
Is it? I'd feel pretty pathetic if I was still complaining.
Lol I guess my joke went about as well as the Shell cars in that qual session
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stp01 on March 11, 2023, 12:04:08 PM
The cars look great on track!  I was never a fan of the ZB or the last Mustang, so it's a refreshing change.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: TheArrow on March 11, 2023, 12:02:28 PM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 11:58:07 AM
Quote from: TheArrow on March 11, 2023, 11:50:14 AM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 11:42:48 AM
I'd say 0.037sec between the top Chev & Ford is about as close as one can realistically get.
But it's more fun to complain about it being unfair.
Is it? I'd feel pretty pathetic if I was still complaining.
Lol I guess my joke went about as well as the Shell cars in that qual session
your joke was understood. The comment wasn't directed at your post
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 11, 2023, 01:02:58 PM
I dont understand how DJR can be so weak?  The longer Penske is in the past, the slower they get..
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 01:09:31 PM
WD did have a clutch failure.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 01:14:38 PM
Not surprised Brodie is doing well given his background. Amazingly close between everyone else which is great to see.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 11, 2023, 01:26:46 PM
Closest top 10 in history apparently,
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 01:31:37 PM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 01:14:38 PM
Not surprised Brodie is doing well given his background. Amazingly close between everyone else which is great to see.
Isn't it!

Loving the start to the season.

Only blemish is the Newcastle track. I don't know what it's like at the track but it look shyte on TV.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Supercars13 on March 11, 2023, 01:53:05 PM
Congrats to Brodie on the pole. The 00.3951 gap in the shootout is closer than the previous record from Barbagallo 2009 of 00.5222 between 10 cars. Brodie is the 16th driver to convert fastest qualifying to shootout win.

Mike, your place looks pretty good. I wouldn't handle the cold that well.

Hope for a fun race.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 11, 2023, 02:59:34 PM
Why do they persist with showing the drivers? It's alway so awkward & boring.. And this year, it was just a complete mess!!

If I didn't know the faces, I would have no idea who was being introduced!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: TheArrow on March 11, 2023, 03:02:39 PM
Well that was an awkward mess...
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 03:26:57 PM
One issue with them being so close is it leads to boring races. Hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll see much passing this weekend.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 04:08:12 PM
These fuel drops are so confusing. Used to be able to follow who's done what and predict the last stint.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 04:18:27 PM
1 each, 2 each, 3 each.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: TheArrow on March 11, 2023, 05:04:55 PM
14 minutes left until time certain finish and 14 laps left in the race.

Amazing event organising.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 11, 2023, 05:07:35 PM
Bor-ish race, but i think that's the track.. It does look like they can overtake easier, which should be good for better tracks.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 05:43:37 PM
No post race posts? Everyone fall asleep?

After all the hub-bub, it's status quo.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: TheArrow on March 11, 2023, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 05:43:37 PM
No post race posts? Everyone fall asleep?

After all the hub-bub, it's status quo.
Yeah, 30,000kms of testing and millions spent for the same results.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stp01 on March 11, 2023, 06:18:20 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 05:43:37 PM
No post race posts? Everyone fall asleep?

After all the hub-bub, it's status quo.
Come on, it was pretty exciting when they displayed the Ford logo under Van Gisbergen's name after he crossed the line! Quality telecast!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Brazen on March 11, 2023, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 11, 2023, 05:07:35 PM
Bor-ish race, but i think that's the track.. It does look like they can overtake easier, which should be good for better tracks.

I think this too... Newey has always been way too tight... AGP and Perth will be better tests
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 06:48:32 PM
Quote from: stp01 on March 11, 2023, 06:18:20 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 05:43:37 PM
No post race posts? Everyone fall asleep?

After all the hub-bub, it's status quo.
Come on, it was pretty exciting when they displayed the Ford logo under Van Gisbergen's name after he crossed the line! Quality telecast!

That's why I was the only one posting after the race.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 06:50:53 PM
Rubbish race, this track is not suitable for these cars.  Well done to SVG & T8 though.  Once again the cream rises to the top.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: murph_fan51 on March 11, 2023, 08:08:12 PM
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/protest-received-after-newcastle-opener/

So what's going on here?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 11, 2023, 08:22:56 PM
Quote from: murph_fan51 on March 11, 2023, 08:08:12 PM
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/protest-received-after-newcastle-opener/

So what's going on here?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
What a stupid press release.. Is that all they are going to tell us?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stp01 on March 11, 2023, 08:41:08 PM
Tickford and WAU have protested 888.

The driver cooling system must be mounted in the passenger seat area, but the 888 cars were filled with dry ice from the driver's door. So it may come down to an analysis of the cooling system design to see if it meets the rules.

Decision will be announced in the morning.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/11/stewards-deliberations-continue-over-triple-eight-protest/
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 11, 2023, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: stp01 on March 11, 2023, 08:41:08 PM
Tickford and WAU have protested 888.
What for?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 11, 2023, 10:12:58 PM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 11, 2023, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: stp01 on March 11, 2023, 08:41:08 PM
Tickford and WAU have protested 888.
What for?

Apparently Tickford and WAU drivers cracked it at their team because Triple 8  had cooler drivers in their cars.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Ospif1 on March 11, 2023, 10:29:22 PM
Seems like something worth protesting.  Rule is clear on the location and they were filling from the other side so questions should be asked.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 11, 2023, 11:11:47 PM
They are American cars. Their passengers sit on the righthand side. ;)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 11, 2023, 11:40:40 PM
Having read the following:
Quote...Teams are using two different driver cooling methods at the Newcastle Street circuit – conventional dry ice chilled water and air circulation or a sealed mini-aircon system.

At least half the field has adopted the ChillOut refrigeration unit pioneered in Supercars last year by Triple Eight and Erebus.

The sealed system uses refrigerated air to chill the water that circulates through the drivers' cool suits, worn under their fire-resistant apparel.

The existing ChillOut device can't supply cooled air to the drivers' helmets, unlike the dry ice boxes, which feed chilled air through a tube connected to a duct on the top of the helmets.

Driver "air conditioning" that does away with dry ice containers was part of the Gen3 plan from the start, but across-the-board adoption was delayed as Supercars' motor sport department grappled with more pressing technical concerns.

For the time being, teams have the option of sticking with their dry ice systems or adopting the ChillOut unit, which several teams have. ...
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/11/supercars-plans-driver-cooling-change/

in particular, " the ChillOut refrigeration unit pioneered in Supercars last year by Triple Eight and Erebus. "

Having read that, i was interested to see 888 adding dry ice, apparently to the old system and not the Chillout. The occasions that I noticed, they added the dry ice through the Passengers side door.

The rule states
Quoterule states in its entirety:

C16.2 Driver Cooling System

16.2.1 Any Driver cooling system that contains a cooling medium must be:

16.2.1.1 mounted within the cockpit utilising the mounting points designated in the GSD for the passenger seat; and

16.2.1.2 constructed in a manner which to the satisfaction of the HoM, has been designed to ensure the safe containment of the entire system during reasonably foreseeable loading conditions
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/11/stewards-deliberations-continue-over-triple-eight-protest/

From reading the rule, it seems to demand a particular location, but nothing to stop a pit crew from reaching over the driver from the driver's side door, although I only saw it through the passenger's door.


I await the results tomorrow, but judging by the remarks on posts, a few forumites will not be watching such an allegedly boring event.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: LG on March 12, 2023, 08:30:01 AM
The only time I saw 888 refilling from the driver's side they weren't leaning across the driver.
They were doing something between the driver and the RHS door.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: murph_fan51 on March 12, 2023, 09:03:30 AM
Quote from: LG on March 12, 2023, 08:30:01 AM
The only time I saw 888 refilling from the driver's side they weren't leaning across the driver.
They were doing something between the driver and the RHS door.
Same here.

Still no update on the news on the Supercars website...
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 12, 2023, 09:35:50 AM
These are the days of our live!!

This seems like such a clear breach? Surely this needs to be a disqualification for both cars? ****s about to hit the fan.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Wrighty05 on March 12, 2023, 09:37:52 AM
I'm hearing both cars have been disqualified

Waters wins
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 12, 2023, 09:39:51 AM
Good on Supercars for using balls & doing the right thing.. Hopefully they keep it during any appeal.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: fordman on March 12, 2023, 09:55:11 AM
Again three years in the making and they cannot get the position of the cooling system sorted, surely this would have been found during scrutineering? or did they change it afterwards??? if so makes it worse [ deliberate]
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: skaifeman on March 12, 2023, 10:03:34 AM
Rules are rules regardless of its performance gain. Fair play.

888 claiming they sought permission, and it was granted prior to Race 1. There'll be a little more to this.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 12, 2023, 10:18:20 AM
How dare they cool their drivers in a way they were given permission prior to the race.

Maybe they should have radio's through "debris, debris, debris" prior to adding the dry ice.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 12, 2023, 10:31:36 AM
Quote from: Troy01505 on March 12, 2023, 10:18:20 AM
How dare they cool their drivers in a way they were given permission prior to the race.

Maybe they should have radio's through "debris, debris, debris" prior to adding the dry ice.
So me the paper work!!!!!!!!!!

.......

The thing that pisses me off, is I've heard both Shaife & Neil say their eyebrows raised in the race when they saw it, yet neither of them said a word! Why?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stp01 on March 12, 2023, 10:38:55 AM
They won't win the appeal. The stewards seem to think Dutton and Burgess spoke the truth, but they had different understandings of the conversation. They won't overturn Burgess.

Stewards findings from https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/triple-eight-duo-disqualified-waters-inherits-win/

Firstly, the Respondent submitted that it considered that permission had been granted by the HOM to install the systems in its Cars during a discussion on Thursday 9 March between its Authorised Representative and the HOM. Mr Dutton said that discussion happened in its Pit Garage when the HOM came to inspect its Cars in relation to other matters that the Respondent had been in discussions with the HOM about. This is in the context that the Respondent is the homologation team for the Chevrolet Camaro and that the 2023 model Cars were until shortly before the Event started still in the homologation phase and designs of some systems in Cars were being negotiated.

The HOM confirmed that he did attend the Respondent's Pit Garage on Thursday. He said the primary purposes for his attendance there was to inspect the modifications the Respondent had made to its Cars which had been the subject of the prior discussions with the Respondent. These modifications did not anyway relate to the systems that are now in issue. He acknowledged that during his inspection, Mr Dutton made some reference to Driver Cooling systems and showed him some tubing, which he inspected. However, the HOM stated that while he did this, he did not grant permission to the Respondent to install and use the systems in exception to the Rules and that if Mr Dutton thought otherwise, then he was mistaken.

The Stewards find that the HOM did not grant his permission to the Respondent to install the systems. We find that there was a misunderstanding between the HOM and Mr Dutton as to the purpose of their discussions on 9 March as it related to the systems in issue. It is important to record here that the Stewards find both the HOM and Mr Dutton's evidence about this issue as genuine and credible. We accept that there was a miscommunication error as between them. However, the onus is on the Respondent to establish the systems are in accordance with the Rules and we find that they have not satisfied us that is the case.


Interesting that Dutton claims the rulebook isn't even complete yet though. It is indeed a circus.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 12, 2023, 10:41:02 AM

Shame on 888 for being concerned for driver health and safety.

What next? (with a bit of tongue in cheek)

At least two drivers, Brown and Reynolds, were arguably not in a fit state to drive by the last laps of the race. Should they have been pulled into the pits by their teams when distress became evident? It has been done before.

Some or all of the Mustangs raced with temporary dashboards. Should they be protested and disqualified for running non-homologated cars?

According to the TV talking heads, some teams were using modified wheel nuts. Should they be protested and disqualified for safety concerns?

OH&S matters, such as a safe work environment could be referred to Worksafe Australia.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Supercars13 on March 12, 2023, 10:59:17 AM
Quite a shock. Of course they will appeal and we'll see what happens.

First time a driver has been disqualified from a race podium place since Whincup at Eastern Creek 2007. Ambrose is the last to have been disqualified from a win and then given the place back under appeal for Queensland 2004.

After yesterday I'm hoping for more excitement with the race today.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 12, 2023, 11:42:28 AM
I can see the use of police style body cams and recorders being used in any discussion with Adrian Burgess and other Supercars officials.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: murph_fan51 on March 12, 2023, 11:55:20 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 12, 2023, 11:42:28 AM
I can see the use of police style body cams and recorders being used in any discussion with Adrian Burgess and other Supercars officials.
A simple "get it in writing" should have applied here, T8 took a risk and unfortunately lost out.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 12, 2023, 12:02:31 PM
Burgess said it was a "good idea". Dutton took that as permission to go ahead and use it. That is Duttons story. That is a own goal if ever there was one.

Quote from: Troy01505 on March 12, 2023, 10:18:20 AM
How dare they cool their drivers in a way they were given permission prior to the race.

Maybe they should have radio's through "debris, debris, debris" prior to adding the dry ice.
They weren't granted permission. If you want to relate it to the events of Bathurst 2019. They should be fined $250k on top of being excluded.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: mikeamerica84 on March 12, 2023, 12:34:27 PM
Wow. 

And I was worried about the fans on the balconies outside of Turn 8 being disqualified - had they shown up.  No one was present!

I did notice other many balconies loaded with fans.

Does anyone remember years back when they had to throw the caution for a Holden flag being thrown onto the track?  Winton maybe?  Nothing is preventing many fans from throwing a half slab onto the track to cause a yellow.  Maybe I am thinking outside of the box....

Looking forward to Sunday and the action I am.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stp01 on March 12, 2023, 12:45:31 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 12, 2023, 12:02:31 PM
They weren't granted permission. If you want to relate it to the events of Bathurst 2019. They should be fined $250k on top of being excluded.
One was a breach of the technical rules, the other a breach of the 2019 ISC (Code of Good Conduct). Not the same thing.


Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 12, 2023, 12:53:45 PM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 12, 2023, 10:41:02 AM

Shame on 888 for being concerned for driver health and safety.

What next? (with a bit of tongue in cheek)

At least two drivers, Brown and Reynolds, were arguably not in a fit state to drive by the last laps of the race. Should they have been pulled into the pits by their teams when distress became evident? It has been done before.

Some or all of the Mustangs raced with temporary dashboards. Should they be protested and disqualified for running non-homologated cars?

According to the TV talking heads, some teams were using modified wheel nuts. Should they be protested and disqualified for safety concerns?

OH&S matters, such as a safe work environment could be referred to Worksafe Australia.
I would have thought putting a box in an area designed as "space" for side impact is very dangerous.  For safety reaosns alone, they should't have put that box there.

Quote from: stevo qld on March 12, 2023, 11:42:28 AM
I can see the use of police style body cams and recorders being used in any discussion with Adrian Burgess and other Supercars officials.
It's called writing!!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 12, 2023, 12:57:42 PM
And who have Courtney in the pool?   :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 12, 2023, 01:15:59 PM
Quote from: stp01 on March 12, 2023, 12:45:31 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 12, 2023, 12:02:31 PM
They weren't granted permission. If you want to relate it to the events of Bathurst 2019. They should be fined $250k on top of being excluded.
One was a breach of the technical rules, the other a breach of the 2019 ISC (Code of Good Conduct). Not the same thing.

Don't tell me. Tell Troy.  ::)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Brazen on March 12, 2023, 01:17:54 PM
First person to genuinely bend a Gen 3 car is Courtney
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Ospif1 on March 12, 2023, 02:24:24 PM
Will be another strategy race today but good to see Ford in the prime position for today.  The field generally gets out-played by T8 though so we'll see.  Unless of course T8 kick another own goal today.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 12, 2023, 06:06:16 PM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 12, 2023, 02:24:24 PM
Will be another strategy race today but good to see Ford in the prime position for today.  The field generally gets out-played by T8 though so we'll see.  Unless of course T8 kick another own goal today.
Called it.

Was a good race. What spoilt it (be ready to be surprised) was SVG bump and run on Mostert. Totally unnecessary. He's got the talent and a car to match. But still has to bully his way to the front.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 12, 2023, 06:20:43 PM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 11, 2023, 11:40:40 PM
Having read the following:
Quote...Teams are using two different driver cooling methods at the Newcastle Street circuit – conventional dry ice chilled water and air circulation or a sealed mini-aircon system.

At least half the field has adopted the ChillOut refrigeration unit pioneered in Supercars last year by Triple Eight and Erebus.

The sealed system uses refrigerated air to chill the water that circulates through the drivers' cool suits, worn under their fire-resistant apparel.

The existing ChillOut device can't supply cooled air to the drivers' helmets, unlike the dry ice boxes, which feed chilled air through a tube connected to a duct on the top of the helmets.

Driver "air conditioning" that does away with dry ice containers was part of the Gen3 plan from the start, but across-the-board adoption was delayed as Supercars' motor sport department grappled with more pressing technical concerns.

For the time being, teams have the option of sticking with their dry ice systems or adopting the ChillOut unit, which several teams have. ...
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/11/supercars-plans-driver-cooling-change/

in particular, " the ChillOut refrigeration unit pioneered in Supercars last year by Triple Eight and Erebus. "

Having read that, i was interested to see 888 adding dry ice, apparently to the old system and not the Chillout. The occasions that I noticed, they added the dry ice through the Passengers side door.

The rule states
Quoterule states in its entirety:

C16.2 Driver Cooling System

16.2.1 Any Driver cooling system that contains a cooling medium must be:

16.2.1.1 mounted within the cockpit utilising the mounting points designated in the GSD for the passenger seat; and

16.2.1.2 constructed in a manner which to the satisfaction of the HoM, has been designed to ensure the safe containment of the entire system during reasonably foreseeable loading conditions
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/11/stewards-deliberations-continue-over-triple-eight-protest/

From reading the rule, it seems to demand a particular location, but nothing to stop a pit crew from reaching over the driver from the driver's side door, although I only saw it through the passenger's door.


I await the results tomorrow, but judging by the remarks on posts, a few forumites will not be watching such an allegedly boring event.

CORRECTION:

AS per LG's advice and watching replays, I find that it was indeed the driver's door side. Once again. I was wrong.

My main focus, at that time, was why they needed dry ice when they used ChillOut.

ChillOut is clearly not the answer to Supercars uniform air-con plans.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Ospif1 on March 12, 2023, 06:36:33 PM
Not too pleased about SVG's move tbh, though Chaz did squeeze him into the wall when an overlap existed.  I think the result will stand.  Enjoyed that race a lot more than the 1st.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stp01 on March 12, 2023, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 12, 2023, 06:20:43 PM

My main focus, at that time, was why they needed dry ice when they used ChillOut.

ChillOut is clearly not the answer to Supercars uniform air-con plans.
They were running two systems - Chillout for the driver's body and dry ice for helmet cooling (the offending system). They couldn't source more Chillout units in time, otherwise they would have used them.

Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 12, 2023, 08:54:57 PM
As much as Shane is a dickhead, you can't deny his a cut above everyone else in the championship!

His move on Chaz was 50/50.. No need to penalty, let them race..

Such a shame about Cam, would have made the ending even better!!

What is going on at DJR???????

And are we watching the end of Percat's fulltime career?

Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Wrighty05 on March 12, 2023, 09:10:20 PM
This might need a separate thread, but what annoyed me this weekend was the attitude to the press and their fans of both SVG and DJR.

DJR got the sulks yesterday and wouldn't comment to anyone and SVG today, obviously has the ****s about yesterday and maybe some GEN 3 stuff, but you have a duty to promote the sport and communicate with fans. Without them, you wouldn't earn a living doing it.

As for today, the SVG move was just on the right side of borderline, he did get a bit of a squeeze.

Cam can't make a mistake like that if he wants to win the title, that was a win for the taking. Percat is in deep trouble unless he can turn it around. Bit like Dan Ric in F1, his lack of form seems to be a mystery to his team and himself.

Premair and Erebus had good weekends. I really rate Golding, good to see him translate one lap pace into a result. And Grove are going to be a serious team moving forward

And DJR 🤮
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: bb on March 12, 2023, 09:59:20 PM
So Supercars, you spend years and $$$$ designing and implementing a new car........and end up with the same result.

Wouldn't it have been cheaper finding someone with balls to stand up to SVG!
:) ;D
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 12, 2023, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: bb on March 12, 2023, 09:59:20 PM
So Supercars, you spend years and $$$$ designing and implementing a new car........and end up with the same result.

Wouldn't it have been cheaper finding someone with balls to stand up to SVG!
:) ;D

The cream will always rise to the top, best team and best driver has just shown that.

Maybewe need Penske and Scotty back to mix it up a little
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 12, 2023, 11:07:09 PM
Supercars made sure to run them out of town.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: fordman on March 13, 2023, 08:10:06 AM
Quote from: Wrighty05 on March 12, 2023, 09:10:20 PM
This might need a separate thread, but what annoyed me this weekend was the attitude to the press and their fans of both SVG and DJR.

DJR got the sulks yesterday and wouldn't comment to anyone and SVG today, obviously has the ****s about yesterday and maybe some GEN 3 stuff, but you have a duty to promote the sport and communicate with fans. Without them, you wouldn't earn a living doing it.

As for today, the SVG move was just on the right side of borderline, he did get a bit of a squeeze.

Cam can't make a mistake like that if he wants to win the title, that was a win for the taking. Percat is in deep trouble unless he can turn it around. Bit like Dan Ric in F1, his lack of form seems to be a mystery to his team and himself.

Premair and Erebus had good weekends. I really rate Golding, good to see him translate one lap pace into a result. And Grove are going to be a serious team moving forward

And DJR 🤮

An article in speedcafe relates to some pressure being brought to bear of only speaking positively about Gen 3 seems reynolds and skaife had a bit of a disagreement about parity and reports of high up officials in SC applying pressure as well maybe thats why SVG was a bit quiet at the media conferences??
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Wrighty05 on March 13, 2023, 08:30:43 AM
Yeah I've since read this and have changed my mind on Shane!

Skaifey has to be careful with the amount of hats he's wearing
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: LG on March 13, 2023, 09:10:35 AM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 12, 2023, 08:54:57 PM
As much as Shane is a dickhead, you can't deny his a cut above everyone else in the championship!

His move on Chaz was 50/50.. No need to penalty, let them race..

Such a shame about Cam, would have made the ending even better!!

What is going on at DJR???????

And are we watching the end of Percat's fulltime career?

The problem with that move is that it happens in various forms with monotonous regularity.
It's almost as though he can't pass a car without hitting it or dislodging it to get through.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Sonic on March 13, 2023, 09:13:06 AM
with what Larko said in the telecast about the positioning of the second aircon box in the 888 cars... it is a safety issue... that is a crumple zone to protect the driver if they get t-boned.

but the penalty did not fit the crime... sure it shouldn't have been in that position but exclusion from the event was a bit rich.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: LG on March 13, 2023, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: Sonic on March 13, 2023, 09:13:06 AM
with what Larko said in the telecast about the positioning of the second aircon box in the 888 cars... it is a safety issue... that is a crumple zone to protect the driver if they get t-boned.

but the penalty did not fit the crime... sure it shouldn't have been in that position but exclusion from the event was a bit rich.

It was only exclusion from one race, not the event.  :)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: V8SuperRiley on March 13, 2023, 01:06:58 PM
Quote from: Sonic on March 13, 2023, 09:13:06 AM
with what Larko said in the telecast about the positioning of the second aircon box in the 888 cars... it is a safety issue... that is a crumple zone to protect the driver if they get t-boned.

but the penalty did not fit the crime... sure it shouldn't have been in that position but exclusion from the event was a bit rich.

They've run an illegal car. I don't know if there's any penalty other than exclusion that would suit the crime.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Sonic on March 13, 2023, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: V8SuperRiley on March 13, 2023, 01:06:58 PM
Quote from: Sonic on March 13, 2023, 09:13:06 AM
with what Larko said in the telecast about the positioning of the second aircon box in the 888 cars... it is a safety issue... that is a crumple zone to protect the driver if they get t-boned.

but the penalty did not fit the crime... sure it shouldn't have been in that position but exclusion from the event was a bit rich.

They've run an illegal car. I don't know if there's any penalty other than exclusion that would suit the crime.

for once I'm a bit indecisive on this one V8SR... there are illegalities that improve performance and put you in a better place than the opposition... for me this isn't one of those, it is a safety issue so it needed to be dealt with to make sure others did not follow suit.

but what gain did they get? RB's had cooler feet than the rest would be about the total sum of it? I think a team points penalty perhaps for that race, but exclusion for this offence is at the extreme.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: TheArrow on March 13, 2023, 09:06:04 PM
Quote"For everything that we've done... It's pretty simple for us. We did everything we could, they ran us over the coals trying to get this car ready for the whole sport, we did everything we could, and because we didn't have quite enough time to put the driver cooling in exactly the right spot..." - Jamie Whincup
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/13/whincup-on-dsq-supercars-did-not-tell-the-truth-to-stewards/

Apparently he can't quite get the story straight? Was it that they were granted permission? Or that they didn't have time to fit one correctly (that everyone else was able to do...).

QuoteSorry for this long post, I thought I'd share some thoughts seeing as I kept most things to myself yesterday.
Most people probably have noticed I have been pretty quiet publicly over the past couple of months. My purpose of writing this is not to 'explain myself' nor to expect sympathy for the public bashing that some of us drivers get, I guess I've always been told like most of us as kids 'If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.' I will never forget I'm in an extremely fortunate position of being a V8 Supercar driver, my dream job.
It's not a secret I haven't been a fan of the way the Gen3 car feels and drives, and behind closed doors I've been pretty critical of things and tried to make it better, firstly with feedback to the category in the prototype testing and now with my team trying to make the race spec car to my liking.
The category seems to think our complaints and gripes with the car will 'make better racing' if we are struggling and we are told to be positive and show the sport in a good light, which of course I understand the last part. I try to be as neutral as I can with my critiques of the car, I act with the intention of representing the drivers trying to make the car better for everyone.
As much as I don't have a good feeling with the car at the moment it drops perfectly into my strengths - Hard to drive, on edge, hard on tyres. Perfect for me! So what am I complaining about? I guess I want not only myself, but all drivers to be getting out of the car raving about how awesome and fun it is to drive. Which is something that's not really happening now.
Over the weekend I probably said a bit too much publicly on Friday about the heat of the cars, although it did prove fruitful getting extra cooling for the drivers. Many still struggled, including myself with the heat. Unfortunately that upset some of the top brass and hence my adopted media strategy for Sunday 'if you don't have anything good to say, don't say it at all'. I just knuckled down and drove my arse off on track.
I understand it's my duty to represent the sport in a good light as Champion, I will do that to the best of my ability by being myself off track, racing hard on track for my team members, team partners and our fans. It was a real kick in the teeth hearing those comments from a 5 time champion – someone I look up to and respect. I am not going to pretend it's all roses when it is not.
The messages I have received today from fans, friends, colleagues and media members has been surprising and amazing. I was pretty down last night so to have such support today from the people that matter is a great feeling.
I love my team, they have been awesome this last couple of months helping me prepare and be at my best at Newcastle. I can't thank them enough.
See you at the GP
SVG
(From Shane's FB page)

And another distracting response from SVG that skirts around the actual issue. The comment in the press conference and in the post-race interview were not about the cars/Gen3, they were about the incident with Chaz. So all this that he's said is fine, and makes perfect sense. But it's also kind of irrelevant.

It's like when the team said they were disqualified for trying to cool the drivers. That's not what happened and was just a wordy release to shift the perspective of what is actually going on.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Bloopy on March 13, 2023, 09:26:06 PM
Considering the tight circuit, Bogan Monaco didn't put on too bad of a show.

For every bit of extra racecraft ability Shane has, he's always lacked a bit in the ability to speak with decorum. ;D In the past he's hopped out of his car at the end of a race and coarsely described the race as "boring" or something as being "a bit ****". I'm not sure which of his comments about Gen3 actually ruffled feathers, but even when he was talking about feeling uncomfortable/"wobbly" in the car, his comments would come across a bit better if he framed them with optimism. Even if Supercars fumbled the thing as an organisation and barely had the cars good to go in time, behind that is still a whole lot of ordinary people who worked insane hours away from their families to make it happen anyway. So throwing attitude and disrespect around the place is kinda tone deaf. His whinging requesting blue flags he wasn't entitled to lap after lap was over the top too.

But who knows, maybe it's better for Supercars than a sport lacking characters to talk about. It just makes me find it more entertaining when things don't go the villain's way. The disqualification is also amusing given Adrian Burgess has a dash of Triple8 flavour himself from having worked there for a few years.

edit: having read Shane's post, I can see he was at least trying to be constructive.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: SetonFan on March 13, 2023, 09:27:18 PM
Speaking of the blue flags, has this interpretation that blue flags only get waved after final pitstops been used before? I don't recall it ever being mentioned in the past as a rule.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: fordman on March 14, 2023, 07:51:45 AM
Quote from: SetonFan on March 13, 2023, 09:27:18 PM
Speaking of the blue flags, has this interpretation that blue flags only get waved after final pitstops been used before? I don't recall it ever being mentioned in the past as a rule.

I think it maybe a new rule? SVG may have forgotten it when he was calling for it when not entitled to it?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Sonic on March 14, 2023, 08:11:39 AM
Quote from: SetonFan on March 13, 2023, 09:27:18 PM
Speaking of the blue flags, has this interpretation that blue flags only get waved after final pitstops been used before? I don't recall it ever being mentioned in the past as a rule.

Seriously? Wow... another special rule for SC.

Bloody frustrating when you follow a sport as a whole and then something like this pops up. If you are about to be lapped the blue flag should be out ALWAYS with the only exception if you are pulling away from the leader or whoever is behind you.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Bloopy on March 14, 2023, 08:52:58 AM
Maybe it's Crompo who didn't have it quite right? Possibly he was thinking of the case where the slow car running long is the one holding someone up, as opposed to car in front being the one that's done an earlier pit stop. But I didn't think SVG was that close to Le Brocq - it took him nearly his whole stint to catch up. A quick glance at the rules suggests they wouldn't normally start waving them that proactively.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: V8SuperRiley on March 14, 2023, 09:12:56 AM
Shane wasn't close enough to warrant blue flags in my opinion. I honestly would like to do away with them, until the driver being lapped is more than a lap down. I think a driver should be allowed to fight to stay on the lead lap.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: skaifeman on March 14, 2023, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 12, 2023, 08:54:57 PM
His move on Chaz was 50/50.. No need to penalty, let them race..

Such a shame about Cam, would have made the ending even better!!

What is going on at DJR???????

And are we watching the end of Percat's fulltime career?

Basically my comments for the weekend.
There was overlap in the move that both drivers could've avoided - cheeky from SVG, which we know he does. Chaz isn't one to shy away from contact either, dare say a return serve will come at some point.

DJR have typically gone well at the AGP and Perth, so I think they'll settle in to their natural position by then. It's odd that a homologation team is on the back foot so early, compared to previous results in history.

If Percat doesn't produce results this year I'd say his full-time aspirations are done! No doubt the team is built around Chaz, but I can't see another team grabbing him if he can't produce in what has been a recent Bathurst winning and race winning team. What a backfire so far for WAU, it was my understanding they moved heaven and earth to get Percat there.

Parity seems good so far. What's more interesting is the lack of depth in the Chev teams. If 97 isn't winning, who is? Ford have 3 gun teams (Tickford, WAU and DJR) with Grove nipping at their heels. Chev only 888 and potentially Erebus? No one else looks to be able to pick up the slack, if there's any.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 14, 2023, 10:45:55 AM
Quote from: skaifeman on March 14, 2023, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 12, 2023, 08:54:57 PM
...
And are we watching the end of Percat's fulltime career?

...
If Percat doesn't produce results this year I'd say his full-time aspirations are done! No doubt the team is built around Chaz, but I can't see another team grabbing him if he can't produce in what has been a recent Bathurst winning and race winning team. What a backfire so far for WAU, it was my understanding they moved heaven and earth to get Percat there.

...

Percat signing with WAU was a significant bonus for BJR.  ;D
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: madbugger on March 14, 2023, 11:33:04 AM
Does anyone know when the T8 appeal will be heard? I think they mentioned during the telecast that it had to be done within 3 days.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Kytabu on March 14, 2023, 11:51:50 AM
Quote from: madbugger on March 14, 2023, 11:33:04 AM
Does anyone know when the T8 appeal will be heard? I think they mentioned during the telecast that it had to be done within 3 days.
In the lead-up to the Grand Prix it seems.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/14/triple-eight-appeal-set-to-be-heard-in-lead-up-to-agp/
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: madbugger on March 14, 2023, 12:19:47 PM
Cheers Ky
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 14, 2023, 06:40:11 PM
Having just read Shane's comment I do feel a bit sorry for him (And God knows I dont like him, but I do think his been hard done by).. If the drivers are being muzzled, then Supercars only have themselves to blame.  Let people talk FFS!!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 14, 2023, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 14, 2023, 06:40:11 PM
Having just read Shane's comment I do feel a bit sorry for him (And God knows I dont like him, but I do think his been hard done by).. If the drivers are being muzzled, then Supercars only have themselves to blame.  Let people talk FFS!!

+1
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 14, 2023, 07:26:35 PM
I can't feel sorry for him. He's got the talent, the car, the money, and only has to work 12 weekends this year. That's not to say he needs to suck it up though.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: murph_fan51 on March 14, 2023, 08:10:08 PM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 14, 2023, 10:45:55 AM
Quote from: skaifeman on March 14, 2023, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 12, 2023, 08:54:57 PM
...
And are we watching the end of Percat's fulltime career?

...
If Percat doesn't produce results this year I'd say his full-time aspirations are done! No doubt the team is built around Chaz, but I can't see another team grabbing him if he can't produce in what has been a recent Bathurst winning and race winning team. What a backfire so far for WAU, it was my understanding they moved heaven and earth to get Percat there.

...

Percat signing with WAU was a significant bonus for BJR.  ;D
Time to go Percat.
If WAU are smart, they'll drop him end of year for Golding.

So what did Mr Skaife say anyway?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Bloopy on March 15, 2023, 11:21:35 AM
Quote from: murph_fan51 on March 14, 2023, 08:10:08 PM
So what did Mr Skaife say anyway?

What he said on TV is documented on Speedcafe (https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/12/skaife-critical-of-svg-respect-is-really-important/).

Today's article is Roland pointing out Skaife's conflict of interest and even bringing up Eastern Creek 2003, hah:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/15/rolands-view-newcastle-take-outs/
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 15, 2023, 02:53:40 PM
Let's not forget skaifey was always an egotistical flog. I remember his V8 superstar days, I remember his arrogant attitude towards fans at the back of the pits, at public appearances and signing sessions, I remember him pushing a young kids away at Bathurst near the toilet block behind the pits because he had a bad session and was a little flustered because fans wanted interaction.

He is not an ambassadors arsehole.



I hope freedom of speech is allowed. Id much rather hear a driver speak the truth then hid in the trailer

Newcastle is a pathetic track and in my opinion the worst place to debut the new era. Bring back Adelaide.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Trevor on March 15, 2023, 04:00:11 PM
Quote from: Troy01505 on March 15, 2023, 02:53:40 PM
Let's not forget skaifey was always an egotistical flog. I remember his V8 superstar days, I remember his arrogant attitude towards fans at the back of the pits, at public appearances and signing sessions, I remember him pushing a young kids away at Bathurst near the toilet block behind the pits because he had a bad session and was a little flustered because fans wanted interaction.

He is not an ambassadors arsehole.
you are spot on about Skaife. I had dealings with him as an active member of the Winton team, your comments are 100% correct. Listening to Schenken talking about him when he was racing on race control radio confirms what you say

I don't like Dane one bit, but his comments about Skaife are spot on
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: murph_fan51 on March 16, 2023, 04:22:38 PM
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/explained-the-supercars-appeals-process/

So technically T8 still holds one two for Race 1 until the decision of the appeal.

I thought they handed the trophy's over to the other drivers?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 16, 2023, 06:49:38 PM
Should 888 win. Burgess reputation is in the gutter, Open season on teams breaching tech regulations, without fear of losing race results*. Supercars can't rein in a team for a clear breach.

*= Be interesting to how many who complained DJRTP "bought and Bathurst win" support 888.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 16, 2023, 07:23:54 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 16, 2023, 06:49:38 PM
Should 888 win. Burgess reputation is in the gutter, Open season on teams breaching tech regulations, without fear of losing race results*. Supercars can't rein in a team for a clear breach.

*= Be interesting to how many who complained DJRTP "bought and Bathurst win" support 888.

One advantage of aging is that I remember details of racing 40 to 60 years ago but can't recall the DJYTP incident. A good thing.

Back to the then future: One thing I can't understand is that Burgess looked into the car. Even if he didn't approve the cooling unit (as he testified), he didn't tell them that it was incorrect. Surely that would indicate a suppressed level of awareness for someone who is apparently able to approve changes on the trot or disallow changes.

Barry, from Erebus is right. Get it in writing. I still favour the body cam and I would add security type cameras in the garages, for protection.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Bloopy on March 16, 2023, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 16, 2023, 06:49:38 PM
Should 888 win. Burgess reputation is in the gutter, Open season on teams breaching tech regulations, without fear of losing race results*. Supercars can't rein in a team for a clear breach.

I think if they win (or at least get it reduced to a points penalty) it'll be because of consideration for the Gen3 verbal approval thing they had going on up to that point, so it certainly won't apply going forward. Burgess thought he was only sighting the ducting and not the box position or something like that. Hardly pivotal for his reputation when it's the team that didn't articulate what they were asking more clearly.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 16, 2023, 08:40:39 PM
Quote from: Bloopy on March 16, 2023, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 16, 2023, 06:49:38 PM
Should 888 win. Burgess reputation is in the gutter, Open season on teams breaching tech regulations, without fear of losing race results*. Supercars can't rein in a team for a clear breach.

I think if they win (or at least get it reduced to a points penalty) it'll be because of consideration for the Gen3 verbal approval thing they had going on up to that point, so it certainly won't apply going forward. Burgess thought he was only sighting the ducting and not the box position or something like that. Hardly pivotal for his reputation when it's the team that didn't articulate what they were asking more clearly.
+1
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: mikeamerica84 on March 17, 2023, 12:55:30 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 16, 2023, 07:23:54 PM
Back to the then future: One thing I can't understand is that Burgess looked into the car. Even if he didn't approve the cooling unit (as he testified), he didn't tell them that it was incorrect.

Maybe it works like ice fishing in Michigan, Steve?

A few years back a couple of friends I know, along with the one guy's little daughter, went ice fishing on an inland lake.  The max take for bluegills was 50 per day.  The little girl was not fishing - just watching, unhooking the caught fish, and baiting the hooks..

So they are fishing away, having good success.  One a little better than the other.  They had two piles of fish.  After the one guy hit his limit of 50, he kept fishing and tossing the catches on the other guy's pile until HE had 50.  Once that was done they were getting ready to leave and the DNR (Department of Natural Resources) guys showed up and issued him a citation for exceeding the limit of 50, even though they had 100 total between the two of them.  He personally caught more than 50.

"We were watching you and saw what you were doing," the rep said.

"Why didn't you just stop us and tell us that is not how it works, then?" asked his little girl.

"That's now how we work."
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 17, 2023, 02:24:45 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 16, 2023, 07:23:54 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 16, 2023, 06:49:38 PM
Should 888 win. Burgess reputation is in the gutter, Open season on teams breaching tech regulations, without fear of losing race results*. Supercars can't rein in a team for a clear breach.

*= Be interesting to how many who complained DJRTP "bought and Bathurst win" support 888.

One advantage of aging is that I remember details of racing 40 to 60 years ago but can't recall the DJYTP incident. A good thing.

Back to the then future: One thing I can't understand is that Burgess looked into the car. Even if he didn't approve the cooling unit (as he testified), he didn't tell them that it was incorrect. Surely that would indicate a suppressed level of awareness for someone who is apparently able to approve changes on the trot or disallow changes.

Barry, from Erebus is right. Get it in writing. I still favour the body cam and I would add security type cameras in the garages, for protection.

It's not Burgess' responsibility that the cars are compliant.  It was 888's mistake to assume it was allowed despite AB saying he likes the idea. Even if the conversation was recorded, 888 would still be in breach. Both 888 and Burgess agree that an exemption was not given. 888 defence is that Burgess didn't say it was not allowed.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 17, 2023, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 17, 2023, 02:24:45 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 16, 2023, 07:23:54 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 16, 2023, 06:49:38 PM
Should 888 win. Burgess reputation is in the gutter, Open season on teams breaching tech regulations, without fear of losing race results*. Supercars can't rein in a team for a clear breach.

*= Be interesting to how many who complained DJRTP "bought and Bathurst win" support 888.

One advantage of aging is that I remember details of racing 40 to 60 years ago but can't recall the DJYTP incident. A good thing.

Back to the then future: One thing I can't understand is that Burgess looked into the car. Even if he didn't approve the cooling unit (as he testified), he didn't tell them that it was incorrect. Surely that would indicate a suppressed level of awareness for someone who is apparently able to approve changes on the trot or disallow changes.

Barry, from Erebus is right. Get it in writing. I still favour the body cam and I would add security type cameras in the garages, for protection.

It's not Burgess' responsibility that the cars are compliant.  It was 888's mistake to assume it was allowed despite AB saying he likes the idea. Even if the conversation was recorded, 888 would still be in breach. Both 888 and Burgess agree that an exemption was not given. 888 defence is that Burgess didn't say it was not allowed.

To avoid any confusion, Burgess should have stated "great idea, we can only allow it to run if cameras don't catch ya filling it or scream debris, debris, debris prior to topping up"
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: skaifeman on March 17, 2023, 04:45:35 PM
One does wonder if they ever would've picked up on it in parc ferme had Tickford/WAU not made their appeal.
Was the protest made before the parc ferme was finished?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: LG on March 17, 2023, 06:55:23 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 17, 2023, 02:24:45 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 16, 2023, 07:23:54 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 16, 2023, 06:49:38 PM
Should 888 win. Burgess reputation is in the gutter, Open season on teams breaching tech regulations, without fear of losing race results*. Supercars can't rein in a team for a clear breach.

*= Be interesting to how many who complained DJRTP "bought and Bathurst win" support 888.

One advantage of aging is that I remember details of racing 40 to 60 years ago but can't recall the DJYTP incident. A good thing.

Back to the then future: One thing I can't understand is that Burgess looked into the car. Even if he didn't approve the cooling unit (as he testified), he didn't tell them that it was incorrect. Surely that would indicate a suppressed level of awareness for someone who is apparently able to approve changes on the trot or disallow changes.

Barry, from Erebus is right. Get it in writing. I still favour the body cam and I would add security type cameras in the garages, for protection.

It's not Burgess' responsibility that the cars are compliant.  It was 888's mistake to assume it was allowed despite AB saying he likes the idea. Even if the conversation was recorded, 888 would still be in breach. Both 888 and Burgess agree that an exemption was not given. 888 defence is that Burgess didn't say it was not allowed.

...and did 888 actually ask Burgess about it. From memory Burgess went to look at something completely different.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 17, 2023, 06:59:41 PM
Quote from: skaifeman on March 17, 2023, 04:45:35 PM
One does wonder if they ever would've picked up on it in parc ferme had Tickford/WAU not made their appeal.
Was the protest made before the parc ferme was finished?

I'm guessing the protest was made as soon as the dry ice hit the box. A very good question about parc ferme.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 17, 2023, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: Troy01505 on March 17, 2023, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 17, 2023, 02:24:45 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 16, 2023, 07:23:54 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 16, 2023, 06:49:38 PM
Should 888 win. Burgess reputation is in the gutter, Open season on teams breaching tech regulations, without fear of losing race results*. Supercars can't rein in a team for a clear breach.

*= Be interesting to how many who complained DJRTP "bought and Bathurst win" support 888.

One advantage of aging is that I remember details of racing 40 to 60 years ago but can't recall the DJYTP incident. A good thing.

Back to the then future: One thing I can't understand is that Burgess looked into the car. Even if he didn't approve the cooling unit (as he testified), he didn't tell them that it was incorrect. Surely that would indicate a suppressed level of awareness for someone who is apparently able to approve changes on the trot or disallow changes.

Barry, from Erebus is right. Get it in writing. I still favour the body cam and I would add security type cameras in the garages, for protection.

It's not Burgess' responsibility that the cars are compliant.  It was 888's mistake to assume it was allowed despite AB saying he likes the idea. Even if the conversation was recorded, 888 would still be in breach. Both 888 and Burgess agree that an exemption was not given. 888 defence is that Burgess didn't say it was not allowed.

To avoid any confusion, Burgess should have stated "great idea, we can only allow it to run if cameras don't catch ya filling it or scream debris, debris, debris prior to topping up"

Please indicate on the doll where DJRTP hurt you.  ::)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 17, 2023, 11:18:04 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 17, 2023, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: Troy01505 on March 17, 2023, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 17, 2023, 02:24:45 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 16, 2023, 07:23:54 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 16, 2023, 06:49:38 PM
Should 888 win. Burgess reputation is in the gutter, Open season on teams breaching tech regulations, without fear of losing race results*. Supercars can't rein in a team for a clear breach.

*= Be interesting to how many who complained DJRTP "bought and Bathurst win" support 888.

One advantage of aging is that I remember details of racing 40 to 60 years ago but can't recall the DJYTP incident. A good thing.

Back to the then future: One thing I can't understand is that Burgess looked into the car. Even if he didn't approve the cooling unit (as he testified), he didn't tell them that it was incorrect. Surely that would indicate a suppressed level of awareness for someone who is apparently able to approve changes on the trot or disallow changes.

Barry, from Erebus is right. Get it in writing. I still favour the body cam and I would add security type cameras in the garages, for protection.

It's not Burgess' responsibility that the cars are compliant.  It was 888's mistake to assume it was allowed despite AB saying he likes the idea. Even if the conversation was recorded, 888 would still be in breach. Both 888 and Burgess agree that an exemption was not given. 888 defence is that Burgess didn't say it was not allowed.

To avoid any confusion, Burgess should have stated "great idea, we can only allow it to run if cameras don't catch ya filling it or scream debris, debris, debris prior to topping up"

Please indicate on the doll where DJRTP hurt you.  ::)

Unsure why you keep using DJRTP, as Newcastle proved DJR are nothing without Penskes money and connections. It was always Team Penske, they only kept DJR as a title to keep fans however they probably would have had more if they dropped DJR altogether.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 18, 2023, 12:12:00 AM
Don't forget Scotty. They don't have him anymore either.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Trevor on March 18, 2023, 06:12:54 AM
and where would Team Whincup/Dane be without SVG
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Zac on March 18, 2023, 07:45:09 AM
Hypothetical, so impossible to say, but 888 won the Teams Championship for 6 straight years before SVG joined them (and they won again in his first year at 888). 888 also won the Drivers Championship for 4 out of 5 years before SVG joined (and FWIW, 6 out of 8 as well) and also won 6 out of 10 Bathurst 1000s prior to him joining them, so at a guess, I'd say they would probably have done OK - but I take your point. SVG is an exceptional driver. :) 

Back on Newcastle: Where would 888 have been at Newcastle without that ice box stupidity? 
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 18, 2023, 09:31:41 AM
Quote from: Zac on March 18, 2023, 07:45:09 AM
Hypothetical, so impossible to say, but 888 won the Teams Championship for 6 straight years before SVG joined them (and they won again in his first year at 888). 888 also won the Drivers Championship for 4 out of 5 years before SVG joined (and FWIW, 6 out of 8 as well) and also won 6 out of 10 Bathurst 1000s prior to him joining them, so at a guess, I'd say they would probably have done OK - but I take your point. SVG is an exceptional driver. :) 

Back on Newcastle: Where would 888 have been at Newcastle without that ice box stupidity?
Someone get the aloe vera, Trevor just got burnt!!!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Zac on March 18, 2023, 10:17:17 AM
(FWIW, Trev and I have been communicating via various forums for close to two decades, and we know each other well enough to not get too worked up by anything the other one says. Also, I'm no 888 supporter, but sometimes I like to offer a differing point of view.)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Bloopy on March 18, 2023, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Zac on March 18, 2023, 07:45:09 AM
Back on Newcastle: Where would 888 have been at Newcastle without that ice box stupidity? 

132 points ahead in the teams championship already for one thing. In the absence of SVG, two drivers with Feeney's current ability would have a good shot at it.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Alan59 on March 18, 2023, 05:47:59 PM
Quote from: Trevor on March 18, 2023, 06:12:54 AM
and where would Team Whincup/Dane be without SVG
With Mostert as lead driver I suspect.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Trevor on March 18, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 18, 2023, 09:31:41 AM
]Someone get the aloe vera, Trevor just got burnt!!!
go **** yourself
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 19, 2023, 12:34:37 AM
Quote from: Trevor on March 18, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 18, 2023, 09:31:41 AM
]Someone get the aloe vera, Trevor just got burnt!!!
go **** yourself

No need to take it personal old mate, triple 8 dominated long bed re Giz and will dominate long after he retired or moves on too.

Newcastle was a display of Triple 8s ongoing talent, disqualification or not. They flogged the crap out of the competition in what was probably the closest parity debut in the V8/Supercars era
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 19, 2023, 10:14:32 AM
Good question. Where would 888 be without SVG now?

888 domination has come from 1 driver. Whincup lead a decade of success. It took that long to replace him.

Look what happened when a dominate team loses its top driver. HRT, SBR, DJR... 888 have struck lightning twice. Helped by the fact that SVG's closet rivals retired or left the series.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Bloopy on March 19, 2023, 12:13:42 PM
Where would SVG be if Scotty Mac hadn't inspired him to up his game?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: fordman on March 19, 2023, 02:00:43 PM
Quote from: Bloopy on March 19, 2023, 12:13:42 PM
Where would SVG be if Scotty Mac hadn't inspired him to up his game?

Did I hear correctly SVG contract up this year and looking to USA next year???
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Zac on March 19, 2023, 09:04:53 PM
I wouldn't know. 'Newcastle Spoliers', wasn't it?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 19, 2023, 10:29:34 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 19, 2023, 10:14:32 AM
Good question. Where would 888 be without SVG now?

888 domination has come from 1 driver. Whincup lead a decade of success. It took that long to replace him.

Look what happened when a dominate team loses its top driver. HRT, SBR, DJR... 888 have struck lightning twice. Helped by the fact that SVG's closet rivals retired or left the series.

Triple 8s domination comes from the solid foundation they built their team on, they always have a contingency plan in place.

When Giz disappears they'll have a top class championship winner take his place, just like they did with Lowndes, Jdub and every other team member that moves on to greener pastures just to get hosed by their old team.

Love them or hate them, whatever they have in place works and works ****ing well.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 19, 2023, 11:53:26 PM
Quote from: Troy01505 on March 19, 2023, 10:29:34 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 19, 2023, 10:14:32 AM
Good question. Where would 888 be without SVG now?

888 domination has come from 1 driver. Whincup lead a decade of success. It took that long to replace him.

Look what happened when a dominate team loses its top driver. HRT, SBR, DJR... 888 have struck lightning twice. Helped by the fact that SVG's closet rivals retired or left the series.

Triple 8s domination comes from the solid foundation they built their team on, they always have a contingency plan in place.

When Giz disappears they'll have a top class championship winner take his place, just like they did with Lowndes, Jdub and every other team member that moves on to greener pastures just to get hosed by their old team.

Love them or hate them, whatever they have in place works and works ****ing well.

Yet that solid foundation was soundly be beaten in short order by that blow in Penske.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Trevor on March 20, 2023, 10:35:31 AM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 19, 2023, 11:53:26 PM
Yet that solid foundation was soundly be beaten in short order by that blow in Penske.
too true, well said
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 22, 2023, 10:06:26 PM
Quote from: Trevor on March 20, 2023, 10:35:31 AM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 19, 2023, 11:53:26 PM
Yet that solid foundation was soundly be beaten in short order by that blow in Penske.
too true, well said

Except Penske was no blow in, he brought the solid foundations to the team, seems like he took them.when he left too

Triple 8 lost their appeal but still a perfect display of the dominance we are going to see all year. Hopefully Tickford can actually string together a consistent year for Waters so Ford have a chance.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 22, 2023, 11:34:52 PM
I feel that 888, in the future, will be reluctant to converse with Adrian Burgess on any point.

Certainly, as with other teams, such as Erebus, they will demand any statement from Adrian be in writing. Personally, I still favour Police style Body cameras and recorders.

In a way, I feel sad for the drivers as the fault was attributed to actions by the team, but history has many car disqualifications affecting innocent drivers.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: fordman on March 23, 2023, 07:27:22 AM
T8 lost their appeal results stand
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: madbugger on March 23, 2023, 08:07:46 AM
Quote from: fordman on March 23, 2023, 07:27:22 AM
T8 lost their appeal results stand

As they should
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: skaifeman on March 23, 2023, 08:29:24 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 22, 2023, 11:34:52 PM
Certainly, as with other teams, such as Erebus, they will demand any statement from Adrian be in writing.

It's as simple as that, as with any job really.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 10:11:49 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 22, 2023, 11:34:52 PM
I feel that 888, in the future, will be reluctant to converse with Adrian Burgess on any point.

Certainly, as with other teams, such as Erebus, they will demand any statement from Adrian be in writing. Personally, I still favour Police style Body cameras and recorders.

In a way, I feel sad for the drivers as the fault was attributed to actions by the team, but history has many car disqualifications affecting innocent drivers.

888 are the Camaro homologation team. They will have no choice talking to Burgess.

They admitted they assumed that Burgess gave them the go ahead. They assumed wrong. In this case body cameras and recording devices would be detrimental to 888.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 10:17:47 AM
Quote from: Troy01505 on March 22, 2023, 10:06:26 PM
Quote from: Trevor on March 20, 2023, 10:35:31 AM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 19, 2023, 11:53:26 PM
Yet that solid foundation was soundly be beaten in short order by that blow in Penske.
too true, well said

Except Penske was no blow in, he brought the solid foundations to the team, seems like he took them.when he left too

Triple 8 lost their appeal but still a perfect display of the dominance we are going to see all year. Hopefully Tickford can actually string together a consistent year for Waters so Ford have a chance.

888 foundation begins to crack with rule breaches and wasting money on hopeless appeals.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: bb on March 23, 2023, 10:23:54 AM
It won't make any difference to the outcome at the end of the year.
Shane's too good and nobody stands up to him.

John Bowe needs to start a school showing these guys how to defend 8)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 23, 2023, 10:59:25 AM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 10:11:49 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 22, 2023, 11:34:52 PM
I feel that 888, in the future, will be reluctant to converse with Adrian Burgess on any point.

Certainly, as with other teams, such as Erebus, they will demand any statement from Adrian be in writing. Personally, I still favour Police style Body cameras and recorders.

In a way, I feel sad for the drivers as the fault was attributed to actions by the team, but history has many car disqualifications affecting innocent drivers.


888 are the Camaro homologation team. They will have no choice talking to Burgess.

They admitted they assumed that Burgess gave them the go ahead. They assumed wrong. In this case body cameras and recording devices would be detrimental to 888.

I suggest that body cameras would be used by the team to ensure that they had, or did not have, permission PRIOR to the race.

Another point: Does Adrian actually have, or not have, the authority to make any changes to the car specification, if contrary to the published rules?
If he does not, this should be made clear to the teams.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 01:37:18 PM
Burgess denies giving 888 approval. 888 assumed Burgess gave the approval.  888 are in the wrong, no matter how you slice it.

Stupid thing is both parties agree on what was said during that inspection.  Only 888 are turning into something that never happened.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Joe5619 on March 23, 2023, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 23, 2023, 10:59:25 AM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 10:11:49 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 22, 2023, 11:34:52 PM
I feel that 888, in the future, will be reluctant to converse with Adrian Burgess on any point.

Certainly, as with other teams, such as Erebus, they will demand any statement from Adrian be in writing. Personally, I still favour Police style Body cameras and recorders.

In a way, I feel sad for the drivers as the fault was attributed to actions by the team, but history has many car disqualifications affecting innocent drivers.


888 are the Camaro homologation team. They will have no choice talking to Burgess.

They admitted they assumed that Burgess gave them the go ahead. They assumed wrong. In this case body cameras and recording devices would be detrimental to 888.

I suggest that body cameras would be used by the team to ensure that they had, or did not have, permission PRIOR to the race.

Another point: Does Adrian actually have, or not have, the authority to make any changes to the car specification, if contrary to the published rules?
If he does not, this should be made clear to the teams.
It's called writing.. I don't understand why people don't understand this.. We don't need body cam, we need writing..

And I guarantee the rules will be changed to say everything needs to be done in writing!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: murph_fan51 on March 24, 2023, 05:01:35 PM
Quote from: madbugger on March 23, 2023, 08:07:46 AM
Quote from: fordman on March 23, 2023, 07:27:22 AM
T8 lost their appeal results stand

As they should
T8 were never going to win. Otherwise Supercars would end up with egg on their face.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 24, 2023, 09:10:00 PM
Quote from: murph_fan51 on March 24, 2023, 05:01:35 PM
Quote from: madbugger on March 23, 2023, 08:07:46 AM
Quote from: fordman on March 23, 2023, 07:27:22 AM
T8 lost their appeal results stand

As they should
T8 were never going to win. Otherwise Supercars would end up with egg on their face.

Had the same thoughts, however...

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/24/revealed-why-triple-eight-appeal-was-dismissed/

888 was never going to win because 888's only defense was found to be irrelevant. $10k down the toilet.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 24, 2023, 10:11:52 PM
Quote from: stevo qld on March 23, 2023, 10:59:25 AM
...

Another point: Does Adrian actually have, or not have, the authority to make any changes to the car specification, if contrary to the published rules?
If he does not, this should be made clear to the teams.

QuoteAmong the notable points is that the three-person panel hearing the appeal (Walter Sofronoff KC, Steve Chopping and Ross Jackson) determined that Supercars Head of Motorsport Adrian Burgess "has no authority to give an informal waiver of a rule to one competitor,"


Now we know.

Even if in writing, Adrian does not have that authority.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/24/revealed-why-triple-eight-appeal-was-dismissed/
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: djr18fan on March 25, 2023, 05:26:06 AM
The loss of 888's appeal must shock those who claim 888 bias from officialdom. Oh well, they'll have another conspiracy theory to explain it.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: LG on March 25, 2023, 08:06:15 AM
The Appeals Board's thinking and deductions are well laid out in that Speedcafe article.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Troy01505 on March 25, 2023, 09:01:14 AM
Triple 8 broke the rules correcting a WHS issue in the car.

It is widely known across the paddock that many cars were not raced 100% to the regulations due to Supercars incompetence in having the rules and regulations on the new cars avaiywithin a timeframe to allow teams to comply.

Problem is that teams were given permission for the non performance gaining discrepancies,

Triple 8 required a penalty but not sure disqualification suits the crime.

Hopefully from here on end this is consistent and any team caught out faces disqualification from the race for non performance improving breaches.

I believe it should now be exclusion from the entire event for any performance gaming breach whether it be in practice or race.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: LG on March 25, 2023, 12:11:01 PM
Quote from: Troy01505 on March 25, 2023, 09:01:14 AM
Triple 8 broke the rules correcting a WHS issue in the car.

It is widely known across the paddock that many cars were not raced 100% to the regulations due to Supercars incompetence in having the rules and regulations on the new cars avaiywithin a timeframe to allow teams to comply.

Problem is that teams were given permission for the non performance gaining discrepancies,

Triple 8 required a penalty but not sure disqualification suits the crime.

Hopefully from here on end this is consistent and any team caught out faces disqualification from the race for non performance improving breaches.

I believe it should now be exclusion from the entire event for any performance gaming breach whether it be in practice or race.

888 broke the rules full stop.
The standard punishment for breaking the rules they did is disqualification from the race.

I take it you haven't read the official outcome and reasonings otherwise you wouldn't be posting dribble.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 25, 2023, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: Troy01505 on March 25, 2023, 09:01:14 AM
Triple 8 broke the rules correcting a WHS issue in the car.

It is widely known across the paddock that many cars were not raced 100% to the regulations due to Supercars incompetence in having the rules and regulations on the new cars avaiywithin a timeframe to allow teams to comply.

Problem is that teams were given permission for the non performance gaining discrepancies,

Triple 8 required a penalty but not sure disqualification suits the crime.

Hopefully from here on end this is consistent and any team caught out faces disqualification from the race for non performance improving breaches.

I believe it should now be exclusion from the entire event for any performance gaming breach whether it be in practice or race.

That was Duttons defence too. Funny how the other teams inspected were not penalised for these phantom non compliances.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 25, 2023, 12:46:15 PM
Quote from: djr18fan on March 25, 2023, 05:26:06 AM
The loss of 888's appeal must shock those who claim 888 bias from officialdom. Oh well, they'll have another conspiracy theory to explain it.

Yeah exactly. How many other tech breaches have 888 got away with because Burgess said it was OK.  8)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: murph_fan51 on March 25, 2023, 01:48:13 PM
Well,

I can't remember the last time there was no single T8 or DJR car in the top 10 of championship??


Who would've predicted that!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Bloopy on March 25, 2023, 02:07:08 PM
Shane's 10th now so I guess you just mean after race 1. 2004 looks like the last time it happened, with Steven Johnson climbing to 10th during the year after a crappy Adelaide.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: murph_fan51 on March 25, 2023, 02:12:30 PM
Quote from: Bloopy on March 25, 2023, 02:07:08 PM
Shane's 10th now so I guess you just mean after race 1. 2004 looks like the last time it happened, with Steven Johnson climbing to 10th during the year after a crappy Adelaide.
Supercars website show SVG in 11th (but equal in points with Pye so 10th equal?).

But yes thought it would have been many many years ago.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: skaifeman on March 25, 2023, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: murph_fan51 on March 25, 2023, 02:12:30 PM
Quote from: Bloopy on March 25, 2023, 02:07:08 PM
Shane's 10th now so I guess you just mean after race 1. 2004 looks like the last time it happened, with Steven Johnson climbing to 10th during the year after a crappy Adelaide.
Supercars website show SVG in 11th (but equal in points with Pye so 10th equal?).

But yes thought it would have been many many years ago.

Supercars fail. Shane would be higher on count back, given his R2 win.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: AlbertM on March 25, 2023, 03:28:07 PM
Quote from: skaifeman on March 25, 2023, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: murph_fan51 on March 25, 2023, 02:12:30 PM
Quote from: Bloopy on March 25, 2023, 02:07:08 PM
Shane's 10th now so I guess you just mean after race 1. 2004 looks like the last time it happened, with Steven Johnson climbing to 10th during the year after a crappy Adelaide.
Supercars website show SVG in 11th (but equal in points with Pye so 10th equal?).

But yes thought it would have been many many years ago.

Supercars fail. Shane would be higher on count back, given his R2 win.

Probably because Pye has completed 2 races. SVG only one.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Bloopy on March 25, 2023, 04:05:45 PM
Supercars' table matches Natsoft which also has SVG in 11th, but maybe there's no logic behind it. They also have Fullwood below Payne and Slade below Hazelwood even though Fullwood and Slade achieved the higher placings (presumably why they were entered the other way around on Wikipedia).
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stp01 on March 25, 2023, 05:22:27 PM
In the case of a tie, the driver with the most wins is placed higher. Rule D14.1.6.1. but it only matters at the end of the year anyway.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: stevo qld on March 25, 2023, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: stp01 on March 25, 2023, 05:22:27 PM
In the case of a tie, the driver with the most wins is placed higher. Rule D14.1.6.1. but it only matters at the end of the year anyway.
Of the two, I thought vanGizbergen had the highest win total.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: Bloopy on March 25, 2023, 06:42:58 PM
Quote from: stp01 on March 25, 2023, 05:22:27 PM
but it only matters at the end of the year anyway.

Or possibly to decide who gets the orange number on their car if there's a tie at the top of the table.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: falcon_cobra on October 28, 2023, 12:53:34 PM
Why did Brad Jones Racing cop a 30 Point Penalty? some time during Round 1?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: mikeamerica84 on October 28, 2023, 01:01:52 PM
Quote from: falcon_cobra on October 28, 2023, 12:53:34 PMWhy did Brad Jones Racing cop a 30 Point Penalty? some time during Round 1?
Qualifying for Race 1:

Following a request from the Competitor for a Stewards' Hearing in relation to the penalty to be applied for a breach of Rule D11.8.2 (it is compulsory to use solid, incompressible components capable of supporting the Car in the event of a failure of the jacking system), the Stewards imposed the penalty of a fine of $5,000 ($2,500 of which is suspended until 31 December 2023 subject to there being no further breach of a similar nature) and a loss of 30 Teams
Championship Points on Brad Jones Racing (Car 14 Pit Stop infringement).

https://www.camsjac.com/images/VSC/2023/Race1.pdf
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: falcon_cobra on October 28, 2023, 06:52:33 PM
Quote from: mikeamerica84 on October 28, 2023, 01:01:52 PM
Quote from: falcon_cobra on October 28, 2023, 12:53:34 PMWhy did Brad Jones Racing cop a 30 Point Penalty? some time during Round 1?
Qualifying for Race 1:

Following a request from the Competitor for a Stewards' Hearing in relation to the penalty to be applied for a breach of Rule D11.8.2 (it is compulsory to use solid, incompressible components capable of supporting the Car in the event of a failure of the jacking system), the Stewards imposed the penalty of a fine of $5,000 ($2,500 of which is suspended until 31 December 2023 subject to there being no further breach of a similar nature) and a loss of 30 Teams
Championship Points on Brad Jones Racing (Car 14 Pit Stop infringement).

https://www.camsjac.com/images/VSC/2023/Race1.pdf

Thanks Mate
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: skaifeman on November 01, 2023, 10:25:23 AM
Looking back, if SVG loses this Championship by less than 159pts, the ice-box decision by 888 was a big one!
Title: Re: Round 1 - Newcastle Spoliers
Post by: mikeamerica84 on November 01, 2023, 11:18:50 AM
Quote from: skaifeman on November 01, 2023, 10:25:23 AMLooking back, if SVG loses this Championship by less than 159pts, the ice-box decision by 888 was a big one!
True.  To a point.

Had he NOT been DQd, and kept the points, Erebus on the other hand may have raced him differently throughout the year for they would then been playing catchup.  888 has had all year to come back from that DQ, too.

But do not forgot Townsville where SVG was asked to move over and let Broc Feeney take a race win.  Less loss of points than Newcastle, but still a loss.