https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/23/supercars-confirms-race-car-future-after-camaro-road-car-axing/ (https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/23/supercars-confirms-race-car-future-after-camaro-road-car-axing/)
Still going to run in supercars until the end of 2025.
It'll be interesting to see how it goes from there.
Mustangs'R'Us?
Likely that some teams stay on with the Camaro for a year or two (it's already irrelevant, so what's the difference) ala the ZB/FGX.
Quote from: V8SuperRiley on March 23, 2023, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/23/supercars-confirms-race-car-future-after-camaro-road-car-axing/ (https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/23/supercars-confirms-race-car-future-after-camaro-road-car-axing/)
Still going to run in supercars until the end of 2025.
It'll be interesting to see how it goes from there.
I find it interesting that GM support their teams as Chevrolet Racing, not Camaro racing.
Lets hope they sign someone new & quick.. Ford has already said they don't want to race in a one make series, if they loss Ford as well, it's the end
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 23, 2023, 03:11:30 PM
Lets hope they sign someone new & quick.. Ford has already said they don't want to race in a one make series, if they loss Ford as well, it's the end
Perhaps that may lead to us getting back a Touring Car champion! :D
Losing the category that chews up the vast majority of moneys available in motorsport isn't necessarily a bad thing... if that filters down to other existing categories I think it actually could be of a great benefit to Australian Motorsport
Quote from: Sonic on March 23, 2023, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 23, 2023, 03:11:30 PM
Lets hope they sign someone new & quick.. Ford has already said they don't want to race in a one make series, if they loss Ford as well, it's the end
Perhaps that may lead to us getting back a Touring Car champion! :D
Losing the category that chews up the vast majority of moneys available in motorsport isn't necessarily a bad thing... if that filters down to other existing categories I think it actually could be of a great benefit to Australian Motorsport
Not if it means TCR!!! no thanks.
or do they start Gen 4 NOW???
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 23, 2023, 03:18:32 PM
Quote from: Sonic on March 23, 2023, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 23, 2023, 03:11:30 PM
Lets hope they sign someone new & quick.. Ford has already said they don't want to race in a one make series, if they loss Ford as well, it's the end
Perhaps that may lead to us getting back a Touring Car champion! :D
Losing the category that chews up the vast majority of moneys available in motorsport isn't necessarily a bad thing... if that filters down to other existing categories I think it actually could be of a great benefit to Australian Motorsport
Not if it means TCR!!! no thanks.
Yep, **** that! Aussie TCR are ****house.
It's no suprise, everyone knew, supercars included. What's next a V8 Marc car series?
They will run the Corvette, pretty simple
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 23, 2023, 03:18:32 PM
Quote from: Sonic on March 23, 2023, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 23, 2023, 03:11:30 PM
Lets hope they sign someone new & quick.. Ford has already said they don't want to race in a one make series, if they loss Ford as well, it's the end
Perhaps that may lead to us getting back a Touring Car champion! :D
Losing the category that chews up the vast majority of moneys available in motorsport isn't necessarily a bad thing... if that filters down to other existing categories I think it actually could be of a great benefit to Australian Motorsport
Not if it means TCR!!! no thanks.
TA2 is a great series and 1/3? the cost of a Supercar
Quote from: stevo qld on March 23, 2023, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: V8SuperRiley on March 23, 2023, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/23/supercars-confirms-race-car-future-after-camaro-road-car-axing/ (https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/23/supercars-confirms-race-car-future-after-camaro-road-car-axing/)
Still going to run in supercars until the end of 2025.
It'll be interesting to see how it goes from there.
I find it interesting that GM support their teams as Chevrolet Racing, not Camaro racing.
How many Ford teams are referred to as having a connection with Mustang Performance comapred to Ford Performance?
Quote from: Trevor on March 23, 2023, 04:07:24 PM
They will run the Corvette, pretty simple
This is a completely different car, parity might be an issue for Supercars...
The Camaro news is not new either. Should be right for another 4 years racing in Supercars.
Chevrolet is the brand. Camaro is the model. It was never known as Commodore racing team.
Gen 3 Camaro only exists because Supercars knows there are still enough GM suckers to get behind it and pour money into the spectacle.
Quote from: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 05:08:47 PM
Gen 3 Camaro only exists because Supercars knows there are still enough GM suckers to get behind it and pour money into the spectacle.
which model should they have run?
Quote from: murph_fan51 on March 23, 2023, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: Trevor on March 23, 2023, 04:07:24 PM
They will run the Corvette, pretty simple
This is a completely different car, parity might be an issue for Supercars...
Surely in theory the point of the Gen3 platform is that it's mainly common parts beneath the panels. Once they get the Gen3 teething issues out of the way this year, they should be able to take on new models. Map the new engine and pop it in, bolt on new panels, slide it up and down the airstrip a few times and adjust accordingly, boom done. I guess theory and reality may have a bit of a chasm in between...
I don't think that's the issue. The problem is they're two entirely different styles of car. It would be like rocking up in a Honda NSX and racing it against the Mustang.
Completely different body style and engine placement.
Indeed, and there's your chasm. ;D A few mentioned Cadillac in Speedcafe comments, which is maybe slightly more exciting than an Altima. I hope the GM teams figure something out but I'm not bothered as to what it is.
I have to agree with Troy & Murph above in the thread. This is not "new" news. The Camaro was tapped to be discontinued some time ago.
It is unfortunate that now the series has entered a new era that the longevity of said era is already marked. I think what is interesting is that once again, Supercars' hand will eventually be forced. They knew the Camaro had a limited life time when they went to this formula. I just wonder how far ahead, if at all, they thought this out. What will be the tonic to keep Gen 3 alive?
Or maybe, just maybe, they are just winging it? I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt and think they were/are getting ready for this next change down the stretch in a few years.
I think everyone but the hierarchy at supercars knew the Camaro was dead in the water before they started racing. Just another 💩 decision in the 💩show supercars has become.
TCR was mentioned as a possible replacement, what about GT3 cars? Formula already exists, no more parity bull💩, you pick a car and race it as is, you know it's strengths and weaknesses. They are quick and readily available.
Bathurst 12hr has some of the best racing in Australia, huge fields, what is there not to like about it?
Anyone know what the FORD plans are for the Mustang???? are they keeping it??? for how long?
Quote from: fordman on March 24, 2023, 07:42:45 AM
Anyone know what the FORD plans are for the Mustang???? are they keeping it??? for how long?
I'm no expert, but seen enough around to think the mustang will be pretty much the same as now, but with an eclectic engine.
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 23, 2023, 07:57:14 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 05:08:47 PM
Gen 3 Camaro only exists because Supercars knows there are still enough GM suckers to get behind it and pour money into the spectacle.
which model should they have run?
Not model, but what make is the question Supercars should have focused on. Gen 3 could have opened the door for other brands. But instead stuck with dead GM models in an effort to keep the Holden fans on side and keep Holden v Ford marketing legacy alive. A legacy supercars said they have moved passed.
Quote from: Sonic on March 23, 2023, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 23, 2023, 03:11:30 PM
Lets hope they sign someone new & quick.. Ford has already said they don't want to race in a one make series, if they loss Ford as well, it's the end
Perhaps that may lead to us getting back a Touring Car champion! :D
Losing the category that chews up the vast majority of moneys available in motorsport isn't necessarily a bad thing... if that filters down to other existing categories I think it actually could be of a great benefit to Australian Motorsport
But the money wouldn't filter down to other categories. It would filter down to one category only because that's the natural order of things.
Quote from: AlbertM on March 24, 2023, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 23, 2023, 07:57:14 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 05:08:47 PM
Gen 3 Camaro only exists because Supercars knows there are still enough GM suckers to get behind it and pour money into the spectacle.
which model should they have run?
Not model, but what make is the question Supercars should have focused on. Gen 3 could have opened the door for other brands. But instead stuck with dead GM models in an effort to keep the Holden fans on side and keep Holden v Ford marketing legacy alive. A legacy supercars said they have moved passed.
I'm not sure Supercars "stuck with GM" by choice.. Don't you think if there was another interested manufacturer they would be on the grid this year?
Quote from: AlbertM on March 24, 2023, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 23, 2023, 07:57:14 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 05:08:47 PM
Gen 3 Camaro only exists because Supercars knows there are still enough GM suckers to get behind it and pour money into the spectacle.
which model should they have run?
Not model, but what make is the question Supercars should have focused on. Gen 3 could have opened the door for other brands. But instead stuck with dead GM models in an effort to keep the Holden fans on side and keep Holden v Ford marketing legacy alive. A legacy supercars said they have moved passed.
They have been trying for years to get other manufacturers interested with limited and short lived success.
They have gone down this path because they are the only ones willing to play.
They would/should have known at the beginning of the process the lifespan of the Camaro and this generation of racing
Quote from: Joe5619 on March 24, 2023, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 24, 2023, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 23, 2023, 07:57:14 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 05:08:47 PM
Gen 3 Camaro only exists because Supercars knows there are still enough GM suckers to get behind it and pour money into the spectacle.
which model should they have run?
Not model, but what make is the question Supercars should have focused on. Gen 3 could have opened the door for other brands. But instead stuck with dead GM models in an effort to keep the Holden fans on side and keep Holden v Ford marketing legacy alive. A legacy supercars said they have moved passed.
I'm not sure Supercars "stuck with GM" by choice.. Don't you think if there was another interested manufacturer they would be on the grid this year?
Because Supercars wrote the Gen 3 rules that limit other manufacturers but glove fit Camaro and Mustang. Gen 3 has been in development for 3 years. They had plenty of time to court other brands.
Quote from: hsv8fan on March 24, 2023, 05:28:58 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 24, 2023, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 23, 2023, 07:57:14 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 05:08:47 PM
Gen 3 Camaro only exists because Supercars knows there are still enough GM suckers to get behind it and pour money into the spectacle.
which model should they have run?
Not model, but what make is the question Supercars should have focused on. Gen 3 could have opened the door for other brands. But instead stuck with dead GM models in an effort to keep the Holden fans on side and keep Holden v Ford marketing legacy alive. A legacy supercars said they have moved passed.
They have been trying for years to get other manufacturers interested with limited and short lived success.
They have gone down this path because they are the only ones willing to play.
They would/should have known at the beginning of the process the lifespan of the Camaro and this generation of racing
Given how Supercars botched Gen 2 by favoring one make, no one would be willing to play. A few years back BMW wanted to play but only if they could bring their existing race cars. Supercars have since done 2 ground up generation of race cars. Supercars could have worked with BMW but they didn't.
Gen 3 now has a 3 season life span. All that development for just 3 seasons. So much for reducing costs.
Not sure how true it is but it is said that GM does not want much to do with Gen 3 and that Supercars bought Camaro's IP from GM so it could be raced. If true Supercar want to prolong the ol' GM v Ford thing for a bit longer.
Quote from: AlbertM on March 24, 2023, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: hsv8fan on March 24, 2023, 05:28:58 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 24, 2023, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 23, 2023, 07:57:14 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 05:08:47 PM
Gen 3 Camaro only exists because Supercars knows there are still enough GM suckers to get behind it and pour money into the spectacle.
which model should they have run?
Not model, but what make is the question Supercars should have focused on. Gen 3 could have opened the door for other brands. But instead stuck with dead GM models in an effort to keep the Holden fans on side and keep Holden v Ford marketing legacy alive. A legacy supercars said they have moved passed.
They have been trying for years to get other manufacturers interested with limited and short lived success.
They have gone down this path because they are the only ones willing to play.
They would/should have known at the beginning of the process the lifespan of the Camaro and this generation of racing
Given how Supercars botched Gen 2 by favoring one make, no one would be willing to play. A few years back BMW wanted to play but only if they could bring their existing race cars. Supercars have since done 2 ground up generation of race cars. Supercars could have worked with BMW but they didn't.
Gen 3 now has a 3 season life span. All that development for just 3 seasons. So much for reducing costs.
Not sure how true it is but it is said that GM does not want much to do with Gen 3 and that Supercars bought Camaro's IP from GM so it could be raced. If true Supercar want to prolong the ol' GM v Ford thing for a bit longer.
My understanding was that covid killed the BMW deal?
Quote from: skaifeman on March 24, 2023, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 24, 2023, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: hsv8fan on March 24, 2023, 05:28:58 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 24, 2023, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: Ospif1 on March 23, 2023, 07:57:14 PM
Quote from: AlbertM on March 23, 2023, 05:08:47 PM
Gen 3 Camaro only exists because Supercars knows there are still enough GM suckers to get behind it and pour money into the spectacle.
which model should they have run?
Not model, but what make is the question Supercars should have focused on. Gen 3 could have opened the door for other brands. But instead stuck with dead GM models in an effort to keep the Holden fans on side and keep Holden v Ford marketing legacy alive. A legacy supercars said they have moved passed.
They have been trying for years to get other manufacturers interested with limited and short lived success.
They have gone down this path because they are the only ones willing to play.
They would/should have known at the beginning of the process the lifespan of the Camaro and this generation of racing
Given how Supercars botched Gen 2 by favoring one make, no one would be willing to play. A few years back BMW wanted to play but only if they could bring their existing race cars. Supercars have since done 2 ground up generation of race cars. Supercars could have worked with BMW but they didn't.
Gen 3 now has a 3 season life span. All that development for just 3 seasons. So much for reducing costs.
Not sure how true it is but it is said that GM does not want much to do with Gen 3 and that Supercars bought Camaro's IP from GM so it could be raced. If true Supercar want to prolong the ol' GM v Ford thing for a bit longer.
My understanding was that covid killed the BMW deal?
This was years before covid. Same time as Merc Volvo and Nissan stepped in, IIRC
This post seems to have become a contest to see who can piss highest up the wall. :(
Quote from: stevo qld on March 24, 2023, 10:14:06 PM
This post seems to have become a contest to see who can piss highest up the wall. :(
Let us produce more constructive feedback for the remainder of the thread, then. I'll pose this to the masses:
What would YOU do to steer the Supercars future towards success?
Me? For the short term, I would make sure there will be enough replacement parts for the current Gen 3 models for at least five more years.
In the meantime, within three years, decide whether to pursue a revision to Gen 3 or go in a different direction such as TCR, GT3, or electric. Which way would you go, gents?
My ultimate decision would be to somehow keep this current formula going. We already have engines being produced for each manufacturer. It is not like each Chev and Ford team are doing their own. ICEs for racing can always be produced. Stick with a Ford v. Chev v. anyone else. Eventually it will morph into the next version of Trans Am.
When DTM abandoned their former platform and went to a GT3 setup, I know I completely lost interest in it. One has to admit (or at least I have to) that the current Supercars formula with Gen 3 has kept the passion of the fans quite high. It is only the life limit of the current model(s) that are throwing a wet blanket over it.
It comes down to the marketing. Just about any high horsepower formula can be Australia top tier racing category. Fans followed it through from production, Group C to Group A to Supercars. The later being around for the last 30 years.
The Bathurst 12 hour is gaining popularity. The teams, drivers and the massive marketing similar to current efforts would see it embraced by Aussie fans as the national championship.
It will also depend on the manufacturers. Do they want to play in our little pond. Will they still see value in V8's when the auto world is moving away from archaic ICE.
They will have to make a call to go to EV at some point, but not until 2035 I think, As manufacturers may dictate with their direction SC may have to follow? what if Mustang goes EV???? how to get there and when to start planning for it will be the question. will Gov interference occur as % of EV gets higher Gov may look at forcing car racing to head EV way???? at some point??
In the meantime, work on what to do with NO camaro in 3 years.
The three years isn't locked in. They can change it at any time, just like the Gen 3 introduction.
Quote from: fordman on March 25, 2023, 03:49:17 PM
They will have to make a call to go to EV at some point, but not until 2035 I think, As manufacturers may dictate with their direction SC may have to follow? what if Mustang goes EV???? how to get there and when to start planning for it will be the question. will Gov interference occur as % of EV gets higher Gov may look at forcing car racing to head EV way???? at some point??
In the meantime, work on what to do with NO camaro in 3 years.
one point of interest for me with the EV argument is... what are they going to do when it comes to the endurance events? or even when they have multiple races on one day?
I saw a Porsche demonstration run at Sandown where it ran maybe 10 odd minutes? at full noise alongside petrol versions which was cool... BUT there was a MONSTER diesel generator out the back to recharge it between each running. how many generators would we need to recharge 25 (or however many are running come that day) in sufficient time to run 2 events? even if that is quali and one race??
I did see a video clip of an enduro event where they had a sidepod battery pack that they changed in 2 minutes (**see attached video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29LGfllk5Qo ) ... is this the future here?
Quote from: Sonic on March 25, 2023, 06:27:00 PM
Quote from: fordman on March 25, 2023, 03:49:17 PM
They will have to make a call to go to EV at some point, but not until 2035 I think, As manufacturers may dictate with their direction SC may have to follow? what if Mustang goes EV???? how to get there and when to start planning for it will be the question. will Gov interference occur as % of EV gets higher Gov may look at forcing car racing to head EV way???? at some point??
In the meantime, work on what to do with NO camaro in 3 years.
one point of interest for me with the EV argument is... what are they going to do when it comes to the endurance events? or even when they have multiple races on one day?
I saw a Porsche demonstration run at Sandown where it ran maybe 10 odd minutes? at full noise alongside petrol versions which was cool... BUT there was a MONSTER diesel generator out the back to recharge it between each running. how many generators would we need to recharge 25 (or however many are running come that day) in sufficient time to run 2 events? even if that is quali and one race??
I did see a video clip of an enduro event where they had a sidepod battery pack that they changed in 2 minutes (**see attached video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29LGfllk5Qo ) ... is this the future here?
Only way an enduro would go is of they can swop out battery packs I would think unless they found a battery than ca be fully charged inside 60sec???? in the early days of Formula E they literally swoped entire cars driver jumped out then jumped in 2nd car!!!!!, that wont work here eh? would mean multiple battery packs for bathurst!!! would have to have battery pack capable of at least 45min full pace racing at least. This will need long range planning but technology in 10 years time may make todays EV or battery look like Model T stuff outdated.?
Thats why I am holding off buying an EV as in 10 years time they will be far suerior than todays versions.
Cadillac CT5-V BLACKWING will replace the Camaro.
Quote from: Cobra on March 25, 2023, 08:53:43 PM
Cadillac CT5-V BLACKWING will replace the Camaro.
Run ZB into a wall to flatten the front a bit more and they'll have it.
Quote from: Cobra on March 25, 2023, 08:53:43 PM
Cadillac CT5-V BLACKWING will replace the Camaro.
not a 2 door sports car
Doesn't need to be:
QuoteWhile two-door muscle cars will exclusively take to the grid when Gen3 begins, the steel floorplan and tubular chassis has been engineered in a way to suit both smaller sports cars, and larger four-door sedans should new manufacturers be brave enough to enter the fray.
https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/here-s-all-the-technical-details-on-the-gen3-supercars-ford-mustang-and-chevrolet-camaro
I kinda trust a media release from Supercars themselves rather than 'whichcar'
To be frank, Supercars will let whatever body shell in if a team/manufacturer wants to homologate it.
Quote from: Trevor on March 27, 2023, 02:03:17 PM
I kinda trust a media release from Supercars themselves rather than 'whichcar'
If you insist. They made some of their intentions with the chassis fairly clear here:
https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/next-gen-chassis-grunt-work-underway/
Quote... most opportunity for a different number of marques
Quote... seeing what changes would need to be made to accommodate the maximum number of vehicles
Quote from: Trevor on March 27, 2023, 10:20:58 AM
Quote from: Cobra on March 25, 2023, 08:53:43 PM
Cadillac CT5-V BLACKWING will replace the Camaro.
not a 2 door sports car
And? Gen3 is not only for 2 door sport cars
I really doubt that suggestions of an MY 2023 car as a replacement for the Camaro holds water.
Chevrolet know what they are going.to use and it be something new for MY 2025. It may even be a Camaro. 8)
Quote from: Cobra on March 25, 2023, 08:53:43 PM
Cadillac CT5-V BLACKWING will replace the Camaro.
From a marketing point of view competing in ATCC would seem like an odd choice??
How much money do we think Chevrolet tips in to Supercars anyway?
Quote from: murph_fan51 on March 28, 2023, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: Cobra on March 25, 2023, 08:53:43 PM
Cadillac CT5-V BLACKWING will replace the Camaro.
From a marketing point of view competing in ATCC would seem like an odd choice??
How much money do we think Chevrolet tips in to Supercars anyway?
Nothing, Chev teams will have to look elsewhere or fund it themselves.
I have noticed a lot of ex Holden faithfuls that religiously purchased HSVs or SS commodores are mostly driving Dual cabs and those with an image to protect, flogged out Mercs and beamers.
How many RWD V8s are still manufactured that are not on the chopping block
Hey, my Bimmer is not flogged out! 🤣
I have noticed a lot of ex Holden faithfuls that religiously purchased HSVs or SS commodores are mostly driving Dual cabs and those with an image to protect, flogged out Mercs and beamers.
I'd say we're still driving them. I'd say dual cab buyers are a different market
Not all people that bought SS's and HSV's were even Holden fans. They were just the toys of their day. Dual cabs are just the latest trend. Before that it was SUV's
Six - zip
All Wells at Camaro central it seems.
Hey
' that's entertainment '
Sad bunch U guys
Quote from: GASMAN on April 05, 2023, 08:33:22 PM
Six - zip
All Wells at Camaro central it seems.
Hey
' that's entertainment '
Sad bunch U guys
come again!!
Quote from: Joe5619 on April 06, 2023, 07:55:16 AM
Quote from: GASMAN on April 05, 2023, 08:33:22 PM
Six - zip
All Wells at Camaro central it seems.
Hey
' that's entertainment '
Sad bunch U guys
come again!!
Don't take the bait, Joe.
Quote from: mikeamerica84 on April 06, 2023, 08:13:52 AM
Quote from: Joe5619 on April 06, 2023, 07:55:16 AM
Quote from: GASMAN on April 05, 2023, 08:33:22 PM
Six - zip
All Wells at Camaro central it seems.
Hey
' that's entertainment '
Sad bunch U guys
come again!!
Don't take the bait, Joe.
I don't even now what the hell was said!! I thought I might be having a stroke!! :) :)