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wtf is up with only 26 cars?

Started by brighty08, December 08, 2021, 10:49:16 PM

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stevo qld

Quote from: Trevor on December 13, 2021, 05:51:19 AM
Don't ever loose sight of who owns Supercars, yes there is a 'new' owner but the teams are shareholders too

if the wealth is spread over 15 teams (not sure of exact number) why would they want the wealth spread thinner?  I certainly wouldn't

The get money from the the TV deal, they get money from sponsors, I reckon they get a share of the gate takings (except at Winton), why would they want to spread that thinner?

I think you are out of date.

The teams are no longer shareholders and the 25 team cars have a guaranteed income regardless of the number of additional cars, although notionally capped at 26.
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid.
ALBERT EINSTEIN

Trevor

so, are they franchisee's?

I am probably out of date, it has been a while since I was intimately involved
I am sick of nit-pickers, looking for mischief where there is none

PHARK IT!!!!!

skaifeman

Quote from: Trevor on December 13, 2021, 09:00:39 AM
so, are they franchisee's?

I am probably out of date, it has been a while since I was intimately involved

Speedcafe did a good article:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/12/08/explained-supercars-new-teams-racing-charter-system/
"Ford's Bathurst winning bonus didn't even cover the cost of the after-party" - Allan Moffat, 1977

Trevor

an interesting read for sure:
Quote
Speedcafe.com understands the 25 licences are guaranteed $650,000 per annum over five years based on a 12-round calendar, with extra revenue per additional event. Currently, 13 rounds are slated to take place in 2022
$650k per year isn't much, there must be something else in the deal they are not saying

Quote
"If there are additional events, then they're paid more money to do them, so the teams are not left wondering whether there's enough money being earned. They know how much money they'll get at the beginning of the year. Where in the past we never have.
I am sick of nit-pickers, looking for mischief where there is none

PHARK IT!!!!!

stevo qld

I can't find it now, but I recall reading that the "25" will, in addition, get a substantial cash payment toward the construction of the new "cheap" Gen 3 cars.
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid.
ALBERT EINSTEIN

Troy01505

Quote from: Trevor on December 13, 2021, 10:01:49 AM
an interesting read for sure:
Quote
Speedcafe.com understands the 25 licences are guaranteed $650,000 per annum over five years based on a 12-round calendar, with extra revenue per additional event. Currently, 13 rounds are slated to take place in 2022

$650k per year isn't much, there must be something else in the deal they are not saying

Quote
"If there are additional events, then they're paid more money to do them, so the teams are not left wondering whether there's enough money being earned. They know how much money they'll get at the beginning of the year. Where in the past we never have.

Does not sound like much but 650k a year per car on top of all the other money teams bring in is actually pretty good and relieves a huge burden of the lower budget teams who once struggled to fund upgrades. The few estimates/guesses I've heard have been between 50-75k for each extra event but most seem to think it's on the lower side of that.

There's always going to be a team or 2 looking better then the rest but what ever has changed the last year or 2 it has helped a few teams climb up the grid a bit and more drivers are now able to score top 5s and 10s. If the next gen car cheapens up (highly unlikely based on previous history) then we should see 15 different cars score top 5s a few times a season as all teams will be running the latest upgrade. 

Trevor

I am sick of nit-pickers, looking for mischief where there is none

PHARK IT!!!!!

djr18fan

The teams would also have received a lump sum payment from the sale of their shares in supercars.
Part of the sale agreement would be on the condition that they receive future income. They need a sustainable, competitive, marketable category. Extra underfunded entrants coming and going  don't help build fan loyalty. Could well harm the categories reputation.

stevo qld

Quote from: Trevor on December 14, 2021, 12:43:15 AM
How much is a engine worth?

A lot less than now!

Both purchase and maintenance.
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid.
ALBERT EINSTEIN

Roadways6

Quote from: djr18fan on December 14, 2021, 05:56:33 AM. Extra underfunded entrants coming and going  don't help build fan loyalty. Could well harm the categories reputation.

My god, how ever did the series survive for so many decades without franchises and guaranteed incomes.

Funnily enough the privateers coming and going built the fan loyalty that the series has lived off since 1997!

Trevor

I am sick of nit-pickers, looking for mischief where there is none

PHARK IT!!!!!

djr18fan

Quote from: Roadways6 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:22 AM
Quote from: djr18fan on December 14, 2021, 05:56:33 AM. Extra underfunded entrants coming and going  don't help build fan loyalty. Could well harm the categories reputation.

My god, how ever did the series survive for so many decades without franchises and guaranteed incomes.

Funnily enough the privateers coming and going built the fan loyalty that the series has lived off since 1997!

It struggled.

Roadways6

Quote from: djr18fan on December 14, 2021, 11:09:55 AM
Quote from: Roadways6 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:22 AM
Quote from: djr18fan on December 14, 2021, 05:56:33 AM. Extra underfunded entrants coming and going  don't help build fan loyalty. Could well harm the categories reputation.

My god, how ever did the series survive for so many decades without franchises and guaranteed incomes.

Funnily enough the privateers coming and going built the fan loyalty that the series has lived off since 1997!

It struggled.

Every promo for the series these days harks back to the 60s and 70s, the Gen3 cars were released with old cars in the background, they say the Ford v Holden rivalry was forged in the 60s and 70s....

Yet now you're saying it struggled. Right....

Troy01505

Quote from: Roadways6 on December 14, 2021, 11:56:51 AM
Quote from: djr18fan on December 14, 2021, 11:09:55 AM
Quote from: Roadways6 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:22 AM
Quote from: djr18fan on December 14, 2021, 05:56:33 AM. Extra underfunded entrants coming and going  don't help build fan loyalty. Could well harm the categories reputation.

My god, how ever did the series survive for so many decades without franchises and guaranteed incomes.

Funnily enough the privateers coming and going built the fan loyalty that the series has lived off since 1997!

It struggled.

Every promo for the series these days harks back to the 60s and 70s, the Gen3 cars were released with old cars in the background, they say the Ford v Holden rivalry was forged in the 60s and 70s....

Yet now you're saying it struggled. Right....

Yes it struggled, it's the bones of where we came from but in the "old glory day" apart from the top few teams everyone else either full time businesses or had full time employment outside of the sport, these days they are making money and almost all teams have a full time staff member for almost every role in the team. Series and teams are in the best financial position they have ever been.

stevo qld

Quote from: Trevor on December 14, 2021, 10:19:15 AM
Quote from: stevo qld on December 14, 2021, 09:13:14 AM
Quote from: Trevor on December 14, 2021, 12:43:15 AM
How much is a engine worth?

A lot less than now!

Both purchase and maintenance.
so, around the $250k mark?

This thread is straying away from 25 cars into the Gen 3 thread, so I will just add this one I found and then retire from the thread.

Quote
Are there rules and regulations about the types of engine used in V8 Supercars?
With the car manufacturers scaling back their involvement in Supercars over the past decade, Supercars has taken a more direct role in the development of the new Gen3 engine specifications. Because of that, they haven't been forced to write a specific rule book but have instead taken a more holistic view of the engine development to ensure they get V8 engines that are more road car-relevant but also loud, powerful and cheaper.

Cutting costs has been a key element of these new rules, with the current 5.0-litre engines costing up to $150,000. The target price for these new units is between $65-70,000.

Another key way to save costs is reduced work on maintaining the engines, so Supercars is targeting 5000km service intervals initially, but the intention is to stretch that to 10,000km eventually. That's a vast improvement over the current engines that require maintenance every 4000km; which itself is a big leap forward from the 1000km overhauls some teams used to do.

This is one of the main reasons for the switch to the larger capacity engines, because it will mean less stress on components which should extend parts life.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/v8-supercars-engine-specifications-85166
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid.
ALBERT EINSTEIN