Author Topic: Gen 3  (Read 24467 times)

Offline skaifeman

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #135 on: December 14, 2021, 08:57:46 AM »
If Gen 3 won't be raced until 2023, will Ford be able to update the body to the new Mustang 2022?
I imagine they will, however it will trigger aero parity testing again which is costly and time consuming.  I would be surprised if they ran the update in 23 for that reason.

Then they need to plan for it now.
Both Supercars and Ford would have rocks in their head to start with a car already superseded - especially when the other on the grid already is!

Looks like some of the higher ups at Ford read the forum:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/12/14/new-look-for-gen3-ford-mustang-before-2023/
"Ford’s Bathurst winning bonus didn’t even cover the cost of the after-party" - Allan Moffat, 1977

Offline Troy01505

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #136 on: December 14, 2021, 11:17:11 PM »
If Gen 3 won't be raced until 2023, will Ford be able to update the body to the new Mustang 2022?
I imagine they will, however it will trigger aero parity testing again which is costly and time consuming.  I would be surprised if they ran the update in 23 for that reason.

Then they need to plan for it now.
Both Supercars and Ford would have rocks in their head to start with a car already superseded - especially when the other on the grid already is!

Looks like some of the higher ups at Ford read the forum:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/12/14/new-look-for-gen3-ford-mustang-before-2023/

Bit of a surprise considering the thing they let run round the last few years.

Offline Joe5619

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #137 on: December 15, 2021, 04:59:19 PM »
The cars look great, lets hope these cars create better racing as the lack of overtaking with the current cars is bad.. A shame we have go another season with the current ones.

I just hope they can pull some miracle out of their arse & sign a 3rd manufacture & they are on the gird for the start of 2023!

Offline stevo qld

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #138 on: December 23, 2021, 07:44:00 PM »
A major advantage of Gen 3 is the standardised front end componentry.

It is something that should have been done with the previous major change, but some of the teams wanted to keep their own developed design.

The result has been a years long race to upgrade at a significant cost in money and time. It was not always successful.

Here is one case in point:

Quote
“For us at Bathurst, it was the best chassis that I have ever had there, the car was a rocketship.”

Besides Woodward’s hard work, Hazelwood said a mid-season test had been useful in rediscovering his one-lap pace and also revealed a crucial part change that was made.

I actually reverted back to an older spec part in the front of the car to try to help me get some feel back in the car,” he said.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/12/23/reverting-to-old-part-helped-turn-hazelwoods-2021-around/
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Offline Roadways6

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #139 on: December 24, 2021, 05:24:49 AM »
A major advantage of Gen 3 is the standardised front end componentry.

It is something that should have been done with the previous major change, but some of the teams wanted to keep their own developed design.

The result has been a years long race to upgrade at a significant cost in money and time. It was not always successful.

Here is one case in point:

Quote
“For us at Bathurst, it was the best chassis that I have ever had there, the car was a rocketship.”

Besides Woodward’s hard work, Hazelwood said a mid-season test had been useful in rediscovering his one-lap pace and also revealed a crucial part change that was made.

I actually reverted back to an older spec part in the front of the car to try to help me get some feel back in the car,” he said.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/12/23/reverting-to-old-part-helped-turn-hazelwoods-2021-around/

Standardising more parts is never an “advantage” of regulations

Offline djr18fan

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #140 on: December 24, 2021, 10:24:59 AM »
Cost reduction from standardized parts could make it viable to put all races on that media paid for by advertisers.
Together with a reduction in aero Gen 3 should be great.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 10:26:37 AM by djr18fan »

Offline stevo qld

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #141 on: January 12, 2022, 10:46:21 PM »
I have been pondering about the enormous time. money and energy expended by Todd Kelly to re-invent the Mustang. There were already two significant versions.

The Tickford cars have arguably been the best in the field with the Mustang and even the preceding Falcon. Indications are that Tickford were willing to assist, presumably for a fee, Todd to build his new cars to replace the Nissans.

DJR/Penske had, again arguably, had the best organisation, aided by a seriously superb driver. I cannot recall any significant offer of assistance to Todd. The cars they sold to MSR were, frankly, uncompetitive duds when withot DJR/Penske assistance.

The Cooldrive team, on the other hand had some success, with Tickford based cars, engines and assistance.

Had Todd been able to simply purchase Tickford's cars, or their design, and if he had not stubbornly decided that he had to re-invent the Ford Racing engine, The team would have saved, in my estimation, a lot of money and been initially more competitive.

End of nostalgia!

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture.

Has Gen 3 been in place, the Kelly family would have saved a lot of money on cars and probably been more competritive.

All teams, theoretically can buy a competitive racecar as a starting point and know that the vendor will not suddenly make a major engineering improvement in the cars that the supply team races.

All we then have, as a variance, is the quality of drivers and engineers.

888 seem to be the go to team to recruit well trained engineering staff with many of their engineers commencing from University and being trained. 888 also assist. at a price, other GM teams. Will DJR, for example be willing to assist their near neighbours, MSR????
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid.
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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #142 on: January 13, 2022, 06:22:02 PM »
I am not at all sure that I would rate the Tickford cars over the DJR cars...since the chainsaw to the package (during and) end of 2019, the Tickford Stangs are the quickest Fords at Bathurst (but even this is not quick enough to run with leading ZB's since 19), however the DJR cars look more tunable over a range of tracks. Would you really want to race a Tickford Stang at SMP? The Slade car is interesting, Mr Hogan was quite damning of the calibre of the equipment supplied with the former Tickford car and it was subsequently largely refitted.....where those bits came from.....who knows? But  on more than one occasion in 2021 the Slade car was significantly quicker than all the Tickford cars who looked hopelessly lost, ala SMP again....the Slade car again seemingly more tunable...

Re the Kelly's, if memory serves, the plan was to offer customer cars and engineering at some point....hence the go it alone....

Where the future is with Grove who knows? But don't the Kellys still own and run the engineering side of things? Maybe the game was a long one.....and possibly still could be with Gen 3?

Offline stevo qld

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #143 on: January 13, 2022, 07:51:51 PM »
I was looking at the advantages of Gen 3 and the ways that costs will be contained, not the disadvantages of pre-Gen 3.
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid.
ALBERT EINSTEIN

Offline Roadways6

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #144 on: January 14, 2022, 05:03:46 PM »

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set

Offline djr18fan

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #145 on: January 15, 2022, 07:16:28 AM »

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set

I prefer that to avoid another 1988 ATCC.

REM

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #146 on: January 15, 2022, 08:01:55 AM »

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set

I prefer that to avoid another 1988 ATCC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciouKbeTEro
Really!! Better than this!!!!

Offline djr18fan

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #147 on: January 15, 2022, 01:00:44 PM »

Offline Roadways6

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #148 on: January 15, 2022, 10:34:20 PM »

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set

I prefer that to avoid another 1988 ATCC.

1988, a year where every round bar one featured more than the current grid of 25 cars, Bathurst had close to 50 ….. more than two manufacturers too

Offline djr18fan

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Re: Gen 3
« Reply #149 on: January 16, 2022, 06:21:18 AM »

The beauty of Gen 3 is that there are only two designs of Supercar, with mostly common parts and the differences, such as the body, subject to extensive parity type adjustments, prior to manufacture

There is no “beauty” in such a restrictive rule set

I prefer that to avoid another 1988 ATCC.

1988, a year where every round bar one featured more than the current grid of 25 cars, Bathurst had close to 50 ….. more than two manufacturers too

"promised so much and delivered so very little"