Gen 3

[Jetpac013]

It's been pretty well documented that both Nissan and Merc had efficiency issues (both OHC engines), quickly followed by driveability issues (as they leaned them out, especially low RPM out of a corner, where the pushrod excels).

Happy to speculate and give my thoughts that it's the Ford donk that'll be a little thirstier, given the above, also happy to be proven wrong - something Supercars will likely not disclose.

My understanding was that the Nissan and Merc engines were larger than 5.0L and had to be destroked in order to reach the 5.0L engine compacity... hence the issues they faced??

[Sonic]

It's been pretty well documented that both Nissan and Merc had efficiency issues (both OHC engines), quickly followed by driveability issues (as they leaned them out, especially low RPM out of a corner, where the pushrod excels).

Happy to speculate and give my thoughts that it's the Ford donk that'll be a little thirstier, given the above, also happy to be proven wrong - something Supercars will likely not disclose.

My understanding was that the Nissan and Merc engines were larger than 5.0L and had to be destroked in order to reach the 5.0L engine compacity... hence the issues they faced??

Chev is also in the same boat there? with the de-stroking?

With all of the mechanical know-how in SC land they should have simply created their own engine and built the whole thing in house. Each team could contribute parts (no one company gets outright $ to be made out of it and no team would want to have THEIR part fail so the engines should be bullet proof)

[Troy01505]

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/downforce-rebalanced-after-temora-parity-test/

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/whincup-responds-to-supercars-parity-tweak/

Really Jamie? Your side complained and got the Mustang nobbled. Now you are slightly miffed you have to change your cars? Because, you are after all "All for parity". LMAO!

Bit hypocritical, he is starting to sound like the ford supporters

[stp01]

Through all of this the Giz is probably sitting back loving it, as he's shown how well he can conserve his tyres!

That or the ZB was just kinder to it's tyres than the Gen 2 Mustang after the 2020 VCAT. We know that Supercars were willing to over look aero imbalance. They screwed up the 2019 and 2022 VCAT's. They probably screwed up in 2020 as well.                                         

Nah, the Giz is just better

[AlbertM]

And a minimum fuel drop too, for the overhead cam setup, similar to how Nissan struggled with fuel.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/03/newcastle-500-fuel-drop-comes-to-light/

Where does it say "for the OHC setup"?

It doesn't.
Whilst all hearsay as we don't know the Ford's exact configuration (especially ala VCT), typically the DOHC setup uses more fuel. More cams to rotate and higher engine speeds = more resistance and more fuel.

It's been pretty well documented that both Nissan and Merc had efficiency issues (both OHC engines), quickly followed by driveability issues (as they leaned them out, especially low RPM out of a corner, where the pushrod excels).

Happy to speculate and give my thoughts that it's the Ford donk that'll be a little thirstier, given the above, also happy to be proven wrong - something Supercars will likely not disclose.

4 valve, OHC is actually more efficient. It can develop more power and torque for the same amount of fuel. If it has a consumption issue it is from Supercars tuning.

[AlbertM]

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/downforce-rebalanced-after-temora-parity-test/

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/whincup-responds-to-supercars-parity-tweak/

Really Jamie? Your side complained and got the Mustang nobbled. Now you are slightly miffed you have to change your cars? Because, you are after all "All for parity". LMAO!

Bit hypocritical, he is starting to sound like the ford supporters

Yeah, GM supporters never complained about the Gen2 Mustang, did they?  Funny how they knew of the Camaro's advantage but let it slide.

[Jetpac013]

It's been pretty well documented that both Nissan and Merc had efficiency issues (both OHC engines), quickly followed by driveability issues (as they leaned them out, especially low RPM out of a corner, where the pushrod excels).

Happy to speculate and give my thoughts that it's the Ford donk that'll be a little thirstier, given the above, also happy to be proven wrong - something Supercars will likely not disclose.

My understanding was that the Nissan and Merc engines were larger than 5.0L and had to be destroked in order to reach the 5.0L engine compacity... hence the issues they faced??

Chev is also in the same boat there? with the de-stroking?

With all of the mechanical know-how in SC land they should have simply created their own engine and built the whole thing in house. Each team could contribute parts (no one company gets outright $ to be made out of it and no team would want to have THEIR part fail so the engines should be bullet proof)

The old engines as far as I am aware had purposely made 5.0 cranks and blocks from both Ford and Holden/Chev, which were based of the 302 and the 304 which later became a Chev.

The new engines in Gen3 haven't been touched from what they are from the factory. Although I am surprised that Ford's have the 5.4 as the GT Mustangs are 5.0.

[7 teen 8 teen]

The FORD engine is a Coyote based engine that was developed to power the Brabham BT62 Sports Car.
Capacity is increased to 5.4l from the base Coyote engine of 5.0l
Gets confused with the old Ford 5.4l modular crate engine with 3 valve heads (boat anchor)

[skaifeman]

And a minimum fuel drop too, for the overhead cam setup, similar to how Nissan struggled with fuel.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/03/newcastle-500-fuel-drop-comes-to-light/

Where does it say "for the OHC setup"?

It doesn't.
Whilst all hearsay as we don't know the Ford's exact configuration (especially ala VCT), typically the DOHC setup uses more fuel. More cams to rotate and higher engine speeds = more resistance and more fuel.

It's been pretty well documented that both Nissan and Merc had efficiency issues (both OHC engines), quickly followed by driveability issues (as they leaned them out, especially low RPM out of a corner, where the pushrod excels).

Happy to speculate and give my thoughts that it's the Ford donk that'll be a little thirstier, given the above, also happy to be proven wrong - something Supercars will likely not disclose.

4 valve, OHC is actually more efficient. It can develop more power and torque for the same amount of fuel. If it has a consumption issue it is from Supercars tuning.

Yes more power and torque, but arguably more fuel. Still comes down to more cam friction and engine speeds.
https://www.hotcars.com/pushrod-engines-pros-and-cons/
https://www.designnews.com/automotive-engineering/tech-tidbit-why-%E2%80%9Cobsolete%E2%80%9D-pushrod-engine-design-better-modern-overhead-cams

Just my thoughts based on the troubles that Merc and Nissan had - the origin of the fuel drop.
As you say, Supercars maps are their own thing and the VCT within that unknown as well. I dare say we'll see some tweaking as the year goes on, we've already seen 2.

We don't even know what block the LS is using. It's widely considered to be the LS3, but I can't see any solid confirmation on this?
9news list it as an LSX, which is completely off the mark, we know the Gen3 is aluminium and not cast iron. This also wouldn't explain the supposed 60kg advantage over the Coyote.

[AlbertM]

Far be it for me to believe anything Roland Dane has to say. He has said on Speedcafe that the rumor is the Ford is better on fuel.

OHC is better on fuel. Yes it will use more when you push it, you also get more out of it. OHC can have VCT to improve efficiency. The Ford having less displacement would normally mean using less fuel. But the extra fuel to make up the HP would put it on par with the GM.

The Automotive world has gone OHC decades ago and now refining VCT in an effort to reduce fuel usage and emissions. The gains of OHC out weigh the weight and friction of the OHC setup. There is a reason they are not using pushrods.

[jd]

It is my understanding that VCT on the Coyote is disengaged so as to allow the boat anchor Chev to reach parity as otherwise it would be good night Irene.

[hsv8fan]

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/09/ford-prepared-to-react-on-gen3-parity/

[skaifeman]

There's the best photo of the Camaro aero adjustment. Wrapping the front of the wheel arch.


https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/10/whincup-minimal-impact-from-camaro-aero-change/

Still some conjecture over engines.

[AlbertM]

Seem Ford reserve to right to ask questions later. JW on the other hand is still banging on about the change. The difference between being professional and just a kid throwing his toy out of the cot.

[skaifeman]

Seem Ford reserve to right to ask questions later. JW on the other hand is still banging on about the change. The difference between being professional and just a kid throwing his toy out of the cot.

It's punch for punch IMO, after Rushbrook's comments earlier.