2023 NASCAR Series

[Sonic]

Ok, rule explanation needed please.

When the yellow came out Giz got through the 7 car stoppage and was in p10... then restart he got dumped back to p18?

How did that work?

On a yellow? That's some dodgy work right there LOL...

So if I spin you and you lose a lap in the process do you get that lap back as well with the FCY? Nup, that's just a dumb rule I reckon.

They go back to just before the affray to work out the positions, unlike us who go back a complete lap,

[mikeamerica84]

Ok, rule explanation needed please.

When the yellow came out Giz got through the 7 car stoppage and was in p10... then restart he got dumped back to p18?

How did that work?

They go back to just before the affray to work out the positions, unlike us who go back a complete lap,

We only do so in a red flag situation though?
They do before any pile up?

And how do the playoffs work? One for Mike to explain.
...and stages within the race? You gain extra points if you're leading at that point?

Okay.  Positions after a yellow flag first:

Now, I do not watch NASCAR as much as I used to.  I kind of fell off of the bus around 2014.  But prior to that was if you did not keep moving under the yellow flag, you lost the positions.

For example:  Let us say I crash and am out.  But my crash causes skaifeman to spin.  Sonic and Trev come along and have to stop because of my dead car and skaifeman spinning.  skaifeman and Sonic then move on by but Trev cannot restart his car.  The field is now under yellow behind the safety car.  After a minute, or so, Trev refires his car.  He is now, however, behind all cars that passed him and has to fall in wherever he gets going again, in line behind the safety car.  skaifeman and Sonic lose no positions under yellow.

The big stuff up Chicago - everyone bottled up in the mess, whether they caused it or not, is placed in line wherever they got unstuck and cannot pass anyone for the race is under yellow.  As for SVG in Chicago, I cannot explain that unless NASCAR felt he passed cars once unstuck from the carnage.  But the field is not "set" at the time of caution.  You have to keep moving in some way, shape, or form.

In short, you cannot re-pass a car/cars under yellow and pick your position back up if NASCAR deems your car was previously passed while it was stationary under yellow.

In the example above, let us say once behind the safety car and we are all in line and skaifeman then spins (again) under yellow but keeps going.  No one can pick up a spot on him if he keeps his car moving.  Now if he spins, goes off and gets stuck in the mud/grass for about 5 seconds, gets going again, he then loses those positions while in the grass.

Points: 

Confusing.  It used to be easy. 

Matt Kenseth won the championship in 2003.  He had such a huge points lead near the end of the season he could have missed two races and still won.  So the next year they started the playoffs.  They called it The Chase.

Top ten cars in the points, points reset, and a ten race run for the title.

They morphed it over and over again with more cars (an attempt to get Dale Earnhardt, Jr. in the playoffs) until they got to where they now eliminate a certain number of cars after playoff races 3, 6, and 9.  The last race, 10, it will be down to four drivers.  The highest finisher in the last race of the four is the champ.

For every race BEFORE the playoffs, points are awarded for all finishers.  First through last:  40-35-34-33-32, etc.  36th on back all get one point.

About 6 years ago they introduced stage racing.  Each race is broken up into three stages (four for the Coca-Cola 600).  At the end of each stage they throw green and white checkered flag and then bring the field under caution.  Points are awarded to the Top 10 in the stage:  10-9-8-7, etc.  These points are added to your seasonal total.  So if you win stages 1 and 2 you get 20 extra points.

This stage "stoppage" is painful for all true racing fans for it is gimmicky.  Many feel they should issue the points, but not go under caution.  They do that now for road and street courses.  Only oval races have the cautions. 

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2019/02/08/nascar-driver-points-awarded-per-race/

Once the regular season is over, they reset the points for the drivers in the playoffs at 2000.  Why that number...?  Whoever is highest in points before the playoffs then gets an extra 15 points.  Second highest 10 points, and so on down.

So if Sonic is the points leader at the end of the regular season, starting the playoffs he will have 2015 points.  If I am second, I will have 2010 points.  If skaifeman is third, 2008 points.  Others will be lower in points but 2000 is the minimum.  Not so much an advantage - only 15 points for Sonic.

Now they give out PLAYOFF points.  If you win a RACE during the season, you get five playoff points.  If you win a STAGE, you get 1 playoff point.  This rewards the race winners and stage winners more.  So if Sonic wins four races (20 points) and ten stages (10 points) he goes from his reset 2015 points to 2045 points to start the playoffs.

https://beyondtheflag.com/2022/09/17/nascar-playoff-point-scoring-system-work/#:~:text=Five%20playoff%20points%20are%20awarded,two%20plus%20the%20race%20finish). 

The playoff race points are the same as the regular season:  40-35-34-33, etc.  I believe you also still get stage wins points (1) and race win points (5) for the playoff races if you are a playoff driver.  But bear in mind, if a driver not in the playoffs wins the race or a stage, no one can claim those extra playoff points.  Not even the stage winner/race winner.  Playoff points do a driver outside of the playoffs no good.

Now, if the highest finishing playoff driver finishes third in a playoff race, he receives 34 points.  Not 40 points.  The actual race winner gets those 40 points, for the drivers outside of the playoffs are still vying for some kind of award and money amongst their own peers.

I now have a headache.  I must stop thinking about this.

[skaifeman]

Ok, rule explanation needed please.

When the yellow came out Giz got through the 7 car stoppage and was in p10... then restart he got dumped back to p18?

How did that work?

They go back to just before the affray to work out the positions, unlike us who go back a complete lap,

We only do so in a red flag situation though?
They do before any pile up?

And how do the playoffs work? One for Mike to explain.
...and stages within the race? You gain extra points if you're leading at that point?

This stage "stoppage" is painful for all true racing fans for it is gimmicky.  Many feel they should issue the points, but not go under caution.  They do that now for road and street courses.  Only oval races have the cautions. 

I wondered why so many yellows! And noticed that the bloke in 8th or whatever had more points than the bloke in 2nd.

Seems highly gimmicky! Games within games and a chance for everyone to stay as tight as possible.
Here we are... discussing if the fastest lap deserves points in F1/Supercars .

Thanks for the explanation!

On another note, has everyone noticed all the Supercars naysayers (on Facebook, Speedcafe etc) exclaiming how good NASCAR is and that they'll likely go and watch that instead of the dead Supercars?
Whilst the NASCAR race was good, it was no better, and certainly not as door to door dicey as even a weekend at Symmons Plains would bring...

Caught in the SVG hype, and the current parity debacle. The racing is still fantastic in Supercars, we just need to get it right so the Blue Oval is in with a sniff.

[mikeamerica84]

One thing stage racing brings to the table:

For decades, NASCAR has played favorites.  Kind of like NBA Basketball.  You don't want your star players fouling out.  NASCAR didn't want their star drivers losing a lap or two in the pits.  It's all gamesmanship.

I can remember back around 2004-ish, Jeff Gordon had a flat RF tire early on at Martinsville.  By the time he would have had to pit, change the tire(s), and get back out, he would have been three laps down.  NASCAR threw the caution flag for "debris" from his tire.  This stabilized the field and Wonder Boy didn't lose a lap.

The late Dale Earnhardt, when in his prime, on more than one occasion was known to have a piece of roll bar padding "fall" out of his car if he was close to going a lap down.  This is like a pool noodle on the track.  NASCAR would see it and throw the yellow and turn a blind eye to Earnhardt.  He was their bread and butter.  If it was your so-so driver pulling a stunt like this, he'd be penalized and fined heavily.

The NASCAR phantom debris caution flag was actually famous.  There were times when it was thrown and they would go to a commercial.  Fans at the track would chime in via various weekly periodicals later in the week (there was no social media in the 90s/early 2000s) and claim that no service truck picked up any debris anywhere on the track.  Maybe a hotdog wrapper to make it look legit.

With stage racing, they have shelved that gamesmanship and basically just let every driver know that as THIS lap, there will be a caution flag.

With stage racing there is actually strategy.  One can stay out if in the top 10 and collect the stage points.  Or, one can pit just before the stage break (they close the pits two laps prior to the end of the stage), get fuel and tires, and when the stage ends they are at the back of the field.  After the leaders all box and the drivers who boxed two laps prior move to the front of the pack.

It still borders on professional wrestling rules.

[V8SuperRiley]

Kostecki to make NASCAR Cup Series debut at Indianapolis

Brodie having a crack at the Cup series next month!

Hopefully he does well. It will be a much bigger challenge for Brodie, as they've all ran the track before. I don't know if he is quite as fast as Shane either, even with some previous stock car experience.

[skaifeman]

He's got a tough act to follow.
Really cool news for Brodie, will the NASCAR guys gang up on him after the showing Shane put on?

MobileX sponsored - which is another Peter Adderton company.

[Sonic]

Still suffering from the headache Mike gave me with his explanations...

Go Brodie!

[mikeamerica84]

Here is the updated condensed version, Sonic:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nascar-cup-playoff-standings-hampshire-190000609.html

Ironically, if you look real close and calculate William Byron's total, they have shorted him five points.  He should be at 27 playoff points vice 22.

Playoff points:  Five for a race win, one for a stage win.  Everyone else's match up. 

Where is Kye when you need an accurate stat man?

Go Brodie!

On a sidebar, Indianapolis is not far from here.  I'd go down there the weekend of the Cup race if I could chat with Brodie.  Tell him about v8central and how we are cheering him on and all.  But that is a pipe dream.

In all actuality, I could be talked into the IndyCar race there that weekend but not the Cup race.  It is not made for these cars.  There have been some smoke signals with reference to going back to the oval for the annual NASCAR event there.

https://racer.com/2023/07/15/nascar-tire-test-set-for-indy-oval/

Go Brodie!

Oh.  Wait.  I already said that.

[Bloopy]

Sounds like they really should go back to the oval, but I guess at least these next gen cars are designed with road courses a bit more in mind.

Go Shane!

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/07/20/van-gisbergen-to-make-nascar-return-at-indy/

[skaifeman]

Big news for Shane and deservedly so. Issue is, he needs to back it up.
If he's nowhere that weekend, does it influence his current standing? Or quickly become a 'one hit wonder.'

[CP]

Big news for Shane and deservedly so. Issue is, he needs to back it up.
If he's nowhere that weekend, does it influence his current standing? Or quickly become a 'one hit wonder.'

He's got his work cut out for him this time as they've had a year of experience with these cars on the Indy Road Course.

I'm thinking Top 10 at least for SVG, and Top 15 for Brodie.

They aren't the only ones to look out for, as you've also got Jenson Button in one of the Rick Ware Mustangs, and Kamui Kobayashi in the third Jordan Toyota, the same car that Travis Pastrana drove in the Daytona 500.


Also, there is a vacant seat at Kaulig Racing as Justin Haley has signed with Rick Ware Racing for next year.

Justin Haley was runner up to SVG in Chicago, and does have a very capable team mate in AJ Allmendinger.

Possible home for SVG if he bids sayonara at the end of the year?

[Bloopy]

I watched both of Shane's outings this weekend. Nice job today considering he reported having the throttle sticking somewhat!

[mikeamerica84]

I watched both of Shane's outings this weekend. Nice job today considering he reported having the throttle sticking somewhat!

Agree, Bloops.  Every time the boys come over here it is win-win for all.

Shane can't win 'em all.  At this point, only HALF   

[mikeamerica84]

One last swing of the bat:

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2019/02/08/nascar-driver-points-awarded-per-race/