Does the Mustang hold up during race distance

[AlbertM]

The COG issue was a fair call. DJR pursued the issue before 2019 only to be shut down. So Mustang played by those rules,  then the COG became an issue for the whole field after Mustang won.

The parity process was compromised when they decided to make untested changes mid season. They claimed that aero is the same for both makes. How can that be when in the words of Larkham they added the weight of a 7 year old (~40Kg) to the ZB. Improvements that ZB still has today. While Mustang was clipped again prior to the 2021 season in an attempt to reduce overall downforce in the field to improve the racing.

I'm getting deja vu all over this season. AU suffered a lack of aero balance, Ford teams went chasing mechanical grip. Even the AU could match the VT/X in quali, jag a podium and the odd win. But over all it was soundly beaten. When parity test sided by side the AU was found to have one arm tied behind it's back.

Having said that, my issue is not actually parity, it's the double standard. Mustang came out blazing, OK it got the COG issue sorted, may have even needed a trim the first time. Mustang kept getting cut down and ZB got improvements. My point is Scotty made the Mustang look like a rocket compared to ZB, especially while 888 literally had wheels falling off  and other self inflected woes. Now the script is flipped SVG is cleaning house, DJR are stuffing up and nothing? No issues.

The whole history of Supercars show that when the Blue oval won there were/are large scale investigations in to parity. The lion won, ho-hum business as usual. While The Mustang was winning, Supercars was alway harping on about "making the racing more interesting", ZB is winning everything, "the racing is fine".  I believe it's why Penske left. He saw the hypocrisy and wasn't going to waste his money.

 

[Zac]

"Does the Mustang hold up during race distance?"
Looking at the just-run Race 8 at Albert Park as a random example: Yes. The results of that race weren't skewed by strategy, spins, tyre failures, crashes, or other things that often affect results. Take out the 'SVG/888 factor', and it would have been a Mustang 1,2,3 (with Mustangs also filling positions 6,7,8 and 10) with Commodores taking up over 90% of the bottom half of the field. Not bad for the Mustang, with only 9 Mustangs vs 16 Commodores. IMHO, the Mustang holds up just fine. The one factor that makes the Mustang appear to not hold up is that 'SVG/888 factor'.

("...they added the weight of a 7 y.o (40kg) to the ZB." I'm pretty sure I'd have remembered that one.  )

[AlbertM]

"Does the Mustang hold up during race distance?"
Looking at the just-run Race 8 at Albert Park as a random example: The results of that race weren't skewed by strategy, spins, tyre failures, crashes, or other things that often affect results. Take out the 'SVG/888 factor', and it would have been a Mustang 1,2,3 (with Mustangs also filling positions 6,7,8 and 10) with Commodores taking up over 90% of the bottom half of the field. Not bad for the Mustang, with only 9 Mustangs vs 16 Commodores. Exceedingly close, with the Mustangs probably superior. IMHO, the Mustang holds up just fine. The one factor that makes the Mustang appear to not hold up is that 'SVG/888 factor'.

I think you're onto something, if we took out the SM/DJRTP factor from the results, maybe Mustang wouldn't have been clipped?

The same old if and buts were coconuts argument. My favorite was that IF Ambrose and Skaife raced with the 2003 points system, Ambrose would have won the 2002 championship.

[Zac]

Good points, Albert - and I agree with most of what you say. The difference being (IMO) that there were parity adjustments to the Mustang when SMcL was as unbeatable as SVG is now because of the overall advantage the Mustang had over the Commodore, and not just the 'DJRTP/SMcL' factor. Yeah, "ifs and buts" and we won't resolve anything here (do we ever?),  but here's another example or hypothetical to consider: Let's say the Supercar field was as it is now without SVG/888. In Mustangs: de Pasquale and Davison for DJR, in Commodores: Mostert and Percat for WAU, in Mustangs: Waters and Courtney for Tickford, in Commodores:  B.Kostecki and Brown for Erebus, in Mustangs: Reynolds and Holdsworth for Grove, etc. How dominant would that ZB/Opel/Whatever be then? (FWIW, I keep wanting to see Cam Waters succeed. He's no SVG, but I like the boy and he's one of the best drivers in the category. He keeps being let down, not because of any issues with the Mustang due to any unfair parity issues, but because his team keeps getting things wrong. F#@^+ng frustrating, but anyway...)  So, how do you think the Mustang would fare in that scenario?

     

[Dasha]

Far out as far as I can see the evidence is staring us right in the face, just take a look at the results.
The Mustangs can be quick during the race but simply cannot maintain that to the end of the race.
I dont know why I bother posting my frustrations about this issue it has been going on for years now but for some reason nothing gets done about it.
Is it because we dont have anybody in the blue camp with enough backbone or tenacity to stand up & make enough noise to get something done or are the majority of the officials that have the power to make a change mostly Opel fans.
We are all looking forward to Gen 3 but if a certain Mustang team wins too many races will we see history repeat & they just get penalized in the Camaro's favor. 
Dont get me wrong I dont want to see a ford team totally dominate, I just want this blatant favoritism to GM to be put to bed so we can have some open honest decision making when it comes to parity. 

[REM]

Far out as far as I can see the evidence is staring us right in the face, just take a look at the results.
The Mustangs can be quick during the race but simply cannot maintain that to the end of the race.
I dont know why I bother posting my frustrations about this issue it has been going on for years now but for some reason nothing gets done about it.
Is it because we dont have anybody in the blue camp with enough backbone or tenacity to stand up & make enough noise to get something done or are the majority of the officials that have the power to make a change mostly Opel fans.
We are all looking forward to Gen 3 but if a certain Mustang team wins too many races will we see history repeat & they just get penalized in the Camaro's favor. 
Dont get me wrong I dont want to see a ford team totally dominate, I just want this blatant favoritism to GM to be put to bed so we can have some open honest decision making when it comes to parity.

Do you remember Talem Bend?  In 2018 the two T8 ZB's started on the front row and just drove away from the field......come 2019 and with a possible parity review pending....Shane and Jamie were waaaaaaaaaayyyy back in the back 3 rows and had no speed the whole round (Must  have been the Mustangs fault! ;-) ), poor old Mussie subsequently gets smashed by the rule makers.....that's friggin hard ball game play mate! The blue boys just don't play the game like the reds.......also it's a fragile time for the series...Holden is gone, the ZB is racing in a configuration that could never be bought....and has all the appeal and beauty of......a Camry! How to keep %60 of the fan base who might otherwise walk away???.....it's pretty clear how to keep them reds coming....the only cars to have anywhere near race winning pace are T8 and WAU.....it's not just Shane!!

[Dasha]

OK it seems as if history is repeating itself, but the biggest thing that is bothering me is "what needs to be done to get this issue addressed" as it has been going on for years going back to the days of the AU Falcon.
Whenever there seemed to be a slight advantage in the blue camp they ( Ford ) got there wings clipped or GM was given some sort of increase in there aerodynamics.

So what I am asking is what needs to be done to get this issue addressed. Do all the Ford team managers need to be more aggressive & work together to get something done ?
I dont know I am just honestly frustrated, all I am asking is WHY do the Ford teams get penalized when they win more races than GM & when GM win everything nothing gets done.
     

 

[AlbertM]

Good points, Albert - and I agree with most of what you say. The difference being (IMO) that there were parity adjustments to the Mustang when SMcL was as unbeatable as SVG is now because of the overall advantage the Mustang had over the Commodore, and not just the 'DJRTP/SMcL' factor. Yeah, "ifs and buts" and we won't resolve anything here (do we ever?),  but here's another example or hypothetical to consider: Let's say the Supercar field was as it is now without SVG/888. In Mustangs: de Pasquale and Davison for DJR, in Commodores: Mostert and Percat for WAU, in Mustangs: Waters and Courtney for Tickford, in Commodores:  B.Kostecki and Brown for Erebus, in Mustangs: Reynolds and Holdsworth for Grove, etc. How dominant would that ZB/Opel/Whatever be then? (FWIW, I keep wanting to see Cam Waters succeed. He's no SVG, but I like the boy and he's one of the best drivers in the category. He keeps being let down, not because of any issues with the Mustang due to any unfair parity issues, but because his team keeps getting things wrong. F#@^+ng frustrating, but anyway...)  So, how do you think the Mustang would fare in that scenario?

   

Ever thought that the Cam Waters results are from a race car that is behind the eight ball, creating frustration with in  the team forcing errors? 888 suffered the same in 2019 when under the pump. Supercars stepped in and did something when Dane spoke up.  Waters just uttered the word Parity last year and was promptly crucified.

It's not about who drives what. They tested Mustang and ZB side by side prior to 2019 and signed off. Supercars made parity a hot topic with changes to the winning Mustang.

Skip forward to preseason 2021, Mustang and ZB are tested and signed off. Only this time ZB is cleaning up. No parity issues, the racing is fine, play-on.

[Zac]

Ever thought that the Cam Waters results are from a race car that is behind the eight ball, creating frustration with in  the team forcing errors?

Yes, I have - and along with others on here, I've remarked on it before. I agree Cam's car is often behind the 8-ball. FTR seem to miss set-ups, use poor strategy and sometimes adds to that with poor pitstops. It's not only me saying that, it's true-blue Ford supporters saying the same thing. You can compare #6 to the 888 cars and other ZB teams, but a better comparison is against other Ford teams.

[LG]

SVG's Commie with a flat spotted front left was holding out easily (until the tyre blew) against the 2 djr Mustangs in today's (Sunday) race.
Mostert was the one driving away easily this time.

[CP]

If the ZB really has that much of an advantage, then why aren't they steamrolling the Mustangs with different drivers, you know, like the late 90s/early 00s with the VTs trouncing the AU Falcons, with different teams and drivers?

[Troy01505]

I think Scotty proved that the Mustang is a good race car

[Zac]

SVG's Commie with a flat spotted front left was holding out easily (until the tyre blew) against the 2 djr Mustangs in today's (Sunday) race.
Mostert was the one driving away easily this time.

"Easily" being a comparative term .  As hard as it is for some to acknowledge, we're talking about the best driver and car in the field, but I doubt SVG thought he was doing it easily. He was struggling, and the two DJR cars had closed on him, to where the gap on the lap prior to the tyre blowing had 17 right on him and should have been having a go at passing, something he seems reluctant to do with SVG. Meanwhile, ADP was also nursing a flat-spotted tyre.

[Joe5619]

SVG's Commie with a flat spotted front left was holding out easily (until the tyre blew) against the 2 djr Mustangs in today's (Sunday) race.
Mostert was the one driving away easily this time.

I was waiting for someone to say this because you so nicely forget that Anton also had a flat spot & also kept up with Giz & didn't blow his tyre!!

[AlbertM]

If the ZB really has that much of an advantage, then why aren't they steamrolling the Mustangs with different drivers, you know, like the late 90s/early 00s with the VTs trouncing the AU Falcons, with different teams and drivers?

No need to to go so far back. In 2019 Mustangs didn't steam roll the ZB either, yet found to be worthy of a trim.