Perf (Spoolers)

[AlbertM]

Once again, Fords shown to have an advantage.
Seems only 1 Holden can beat them, and in turn the Fords beat all the other Holdens.

Did you not notice that the Mustangs were going backwards through the grid and the ZB going forward?

That's just nonsense!!

Go look at the results on Supercar website & you'll see the +/- of each cars, lots of Mustangs moving forwards & lots of GM going backward & vice versa.

Just watched the Cam thing & it was BS.. Cam won't that race!

Look at R11. Most of the Ford drifted back from their starting positions. Surely I can make broad ranging conclusions after just one race, can't I? Everyone else is. 

[Skip]

I'm no fan of Cam but the ex-Mars bar kid was hard done by on that one.

[mikeamerica84]

I'm no fan of Cam but the ex-Mars bar kid was hard done by on that one.

I just finished up watching all three races and the Cam thing still has me shaking my head. 

What exactly IS the rule for going around the berm in Turn 7?  A warning for exceeding track limits?  Now one can easily improve track position by doing that and if done in qually I am sure the lap would not count.

Many cars did the same thing all weekend long, but were any of those incidents looked at?  I think the Will/Cam incident only was for it was for the lead of the race.

I think Cam improved his position (kept it) after the incident, but if he is going to be docked for that, one has to think Will forced him off of the track (as pointed out in this thread earlier by Sonic).  This would put WILL in the penalty box - not Cam.  Cam was only out there because he got hip checked.

I actually think they should just get rid of that berm/bump and let them race and maybe even reconfigure the corner a tad.  It would eliminate a call like that in the future if anything.

[Sonic]

I'm no fan of Cam but the ex-Mars bar kid was hard done by on that one.

I just finished up watching all three races and the Cam thing still has me shaking my head. 

What exactly IS the rule for going around the berm in Turn 7?  A warning for exceeding track limits?  Now one can easily improve track position by doing that and if done in qually I am sure the lap would not count.

Many cars did the same thing all weekend long, but were any of those incidents looked at?  I think the Will/Cam incident only was for it was for the lead of the race.

I think Cam improved his position (kept it) after the incident, but if he is going to be docked for that, one has to think Will forced him off of the track (as pointed out in this thread earlier by Sonic).  This would put WILL in the penalty box - not Cam.  Cam was only out there because he got hip checked.

I actually think they should just get rid of that berm/bump and let them race and maybe even reconfigure the corner a tad.  It would eliminate a call like that in the future if anything.

I would further argue that if they both took the corner and Will was in front then he should have had to give the place back as he gained the place by contact, it was never a clean pass.

[Skip]

Agreed.  I think if he went into the corner behind will and came out in front a penalty could be justified but not as it happened. Oh well. I blame Roland.

[mikeamerica84]

I'm no fan of Cam but the ex-Mars bar kid was hard done by on that one.

I just finished up watching all three races and the Cam thing still has me shaking my head. 

What exactly IS the rule for going around the berm in Turn 7?  A warning for exceeding track limits?  Now one can easily improve track position by doing that and if done in qually I am sure the lap would not count.

Many cars did the same thing all weekend long, but were any of those incidents looked at?  I think the Will/Cam incident only was for it was for the lead of the race.

I think Cam improved his position (kept it) after the incident, but if he is going to be docked for that, one has to think Will forced him off of the track (as pointed out in this thread earlier by Sonic).  This would put WILL in the penalty box - not Cam.  Cam was only out there because he got hip checked.

I actually think they should just get rid of that berm/bump and let them race and maybe even reconfigure the corner a tad.  It would eliminate a call like that in the future if anything.

I would further argue that if they both took the corner and Will was in front then he should have had to give the place back as he gained the place by contact, it was never a clean pass.

Yes.  Yet another way to look at it.  Any way you shake it, the call was not right.

[AlbertM]

Cam was pinged for unsafe re-entry. Baird later said that Cam was pinged for "not yielding after Will completed the pass".  Not even the stewards knew what they were doing.

[djr18fan]

3.3. During Competition, Drivers must use the Race Track at all times and may not leave the Race
Track without a justifiable reason.
3.3.1. A Driver will be judged to have left the Race Track if no part of the Car remains in
contact with it. For the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the Race Track
edges are considered to be part of the Race Track but the kerbs are not.
3.3.2. Should a Car leave the Race Track for any reason, the Driver may re-join, however,
this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting
advantage. At the discretion of the RD a Driver may be given the opportunity to give
back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.
3.3.3. Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the Car
(such as leaving the Race Track) will be considered to be a breach of the Rules.
3.4. A Car alone on the Race Track may use the full width of the Race Track.
3.5. Overtaking, according to the circumstances, may be carried out on either the right or the left.
3.6. More than one (1) change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any Driver moving
back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least
one (1) Car width between his own Car and the edge of the Race Track on the approach to
the corner.
3.7. Any Driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full
width of the Race Track during his first move, provided no portion of the Car attempting to pass
is alongside their Car. Whilst defending in this way the Driver may not leave the Race Track
without justifiable reason.
3.8. Manoeuvres liable to hinder other Drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a Car beyond the
edge of the Race Track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.
3.9. It is not permitted for any Driver to unfairly gain an advantage as a result of contact to another
Car.

Rule 3.3.2.
Cam had been passed before the apex.
The pass was not caused by contact.
Contact occurred after the pass had been made.
Cam didn't try to stay on the track. (Other drivers passed at that corner yielded and tried the switchback.)
Cam chose to use the tarmac to the left of the kerb to get his position back.
Cam left the track and gained a lasting advantage by doing so.

[Sonic]

3.3. During Competition, Drivers must use the Race Track at all times and may not leave the Race
Track without a justifiable reason.
3.3.1. A Driver will be judged to have left the Race Track if no part of the Car remains in
contact with it. For the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the Race Track
edges are considered to be part of the Race Track but the kerbs are not.
3.3.2. Should a Car leave the Race Track for any reason, the Driver may re-join, however,
this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting
advantage. At the discretion of the RD a Driver may be given the opportunity to give
back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.
3.3.3. Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the Car
(such as leaving the Race Track) will be considered to be a breach of the Rules.
3.4. A Car alone on the Race Track may use the full width of the Race Track.
3.5. Overtaking, according to the circumstances, may be carried out on either the right or the left.
3.6. More than one (1) change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any Driver moving
back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least
one (1) Car width between his own Car and the edge of the Race Track on the approach to
the corner.
3.7. Any Driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full
width of the Race Track during his first move, provided no portion of the Car attempting to pass
is alongside their Car. Whilst defending in this way the Driver may not leave the Race Track
without justifiable reason.
3.8. Manoeuvres liable to hinder other Drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a Car beyond the
edge of the Race Track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.
3.9. It is not permitted for any Driver to unfairly gain an advantage as a result of contact to another
Car.

Rule 3.3.2.
Cam had been passed before the apex.
The pass was not caused by contact.
Contact occurred after the pass had been made.
Cam didn't try to stay on the track. (Other drivers passed at that corner yielded and tried the switchback.)
Cam chose to use the tarmac to the left of the kerb to get his position back.
Cam left the track and gained a lasting advantage by doing so.

sorry DJR but incorrect there.

if you have a look on the Supercars highlight package the contact between the 2 cars is clearly before the pass... not much, granted, maybe a wheel width, but it pushed Cam wide

the move for Will was definitely on and so glad to see him having a go! but the line he needed to make it around the corner meant that Cam could never go around the outside with him and stay on track... that means Will came in too hot.

so because the contact happened before Will had any portion of his car in front he did not have the lead... I can agree with you that Cam gained advantage insofar as he was further ahead after the exit of t7 but it was Will's action that led to it.

3.3.2... interesting... so using your (and Craig's) reasoning there is no reason for the 5 second penalty... the decision came down quickly... they could have told Cam to yield to Will and then Cam would have at least had the opportunity to fight Will to the end of the race... and as much as I still find it distasteful that Cam was penalised at all this would have been a far better option than what SC dished out and has pissed off so many race fans.

[skaifeman]

Is Will now the most credited winning driver, whilst finishing second on track?

...and what happened on the last lap of Race 3? Did SVG claim the quickest lap despite yellows?

[AlbertM]

3.3. During Competition, Drivers must use the Race Track at all times and may not leave the Race
Track without a justifiable reason.
3.3.1. A Driver will be judged to have left the Race Track if no part of the Car remains in
contact with it. For the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the Race Track
edges are considered to be part of the Race Track but the kerbs are not.
3.3.2. Should a Car leave the Race Track for any reason, the Driver may re-join, however,
this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting
advantage. At the discretion of the RD a Driver may be given the opportunity to give
back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.
3.3.3. Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the Car
(such as leaving the Race Track) will be considered to be a breach of the Rules.
3.4. A Car alone on the Race Track may use the full width of the Race Track.
3.5. Overtaking, according to the circumstances, may be carried out on either the right or the left.
3.6. More than one (1) change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any Driver moving
back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least
one (1) Car width between his own Car and the edge of the Race Track on the approach to
the corner.
3.7. Any Driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full
width of the Race Track during his first move, provided no portion of the Car attempting to pass
is alongside their Car. Whilst defending in this way the Driver may not leave the Race Track
without justifiable reason.
3.8. Manoeuvres liable to hinder other Drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a Car beyond the
edge of the Race Track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.
3.9. It is not permitted for any Driver to unfairly gain an advantage as a result of contact to another
Car.

Rule 3.3.2.
Cam had been passed before the apex.
The pass was not caused by contact.
Contact occurred after the pass had been made.
Cam didn't try to stay on the track. (Other drivers passed at that corner yielded and tried the switchback.)
Cam chose to use the tarmac to the left of the kerb to get his position back.
Cam left the track and gained a lasting advantage by doing so.

Had Cam tried to stay on the track proper both cars would have collided.

[djr18fan]

3.3. During Competition, Drivers must use the Race Track at all times and may not leave the Race
Track without a justifiable reason.
3.3.1. A Driver will be judged to have left the Race Track if no part of the Car remains in
contact with it. For the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the Race Track
edges are considered to be part of the Race Track but the kerbs are not.
3.3.2. Should a Car leave the Race Track for any reason, the Driver may re-join, however,
this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting
advantage. At the discretion of the RD a Driver may be given the opportunity to give
back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.
3.3.3. Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the Car
(such as leaving the Race Track) will be considered to be a breach of the Rules.
3.4. A Car alone on the Race Track may use the full width of the Race Track.
3.5. Overtaking, according to the circumstances, may be carried out on either the right or the left.
3.6. More than one (1) change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any Driver moving
back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least
one (1) Car width between his own Car and the edge of the Race Track on the approach to
the corner.
3.7. Any Driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full
width of the Race Track during his first move, provided no portion of the Car attempting to pass
is alongside their Car. Whilst defending in this way the Driver may not leave the Race Track
without justifiable reason.
3.8. Manoeuvres liable to hinder other Drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a Car beyond the
edge of the Race Track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.
3.9. It is not permitted for any Driver to unfairly gain an advantage as a result of contact to another
Car.

Rule 3.3.2.
Cam had been passed before the apex.
The pass was not caused by contact.
Contact occurred after the pass had been made.
Cam didn't try to stay on the track. (Other drivers passed at that corner yielded and tried the switchback.)
Cam chose to use the tarmac to the left of the kerb to get his position back.
Cam left the track and gained a lasting advantage by doing so.

sorry DJR but incorrect there.

if you have a look on the Supercars highlight package the contact between the 2 cars is clearly before the pass... not much, granted, maybe a wheel width, but it pushed Cam wide

the move for Will was definitely on and so glad to see him having a go! but the line he needed to make it around the corner meant that Cam could never go around the outside with him and stay on track... that means Will came in too hot.

so because the contact happened before Will had any portion of his car in front he did not have the lead... I can agree with you that Cam gained advantage insofar as he was further ahead after the exit of t7 but it was Will's action that led to it.

3.3.2... interesting... so using your (and Craig's) reasoning there is no reason for the 5 second penalty... the decision came down quickly... they could have told Cam to yield to Will and then Cam would have at least had the opportunity to fight Will to the end of the race... and as much as I still find it distasteful that Cam was penalised at all this would have been a far better option than what SC dished out and has pissed off so many race fans.

Could have required a redress. Didn't have to as the rule states that's at the discretion of the RD and only that they may.
I did say earlier that a redress would have been better.

And I don't think I've ever seen 2 cars go side by side through that corner - except when the car on the outside cuts back inside the car that has just "won" the corner. That's how Cam could have stayed on track, and possibly been on the inside for turn 1.


And I did watch the highlight package.

[Kytabu]

Is Will now the most credited winning driver, whilst finishing second on track?

...and what happened on the last lap of Race 3? Did SVG claim the quickest lap despite yellows?

He set the fastest lap on lap 45 before the incident happened. The commentary made it seem like he set it on the last lap.

[skaifeman]

Is Will now the most credited winning driver, whilst finishing second on track?

...and what happened on the last lap of Race 3? Did SVG claim the quickest lap despite yellows?

He set the fastest lap on lap 45 before the incident happened. The commentary made it seem like he set it on the last lap.

Thanks Kye, certainly raised my eyebrows. Thought back for a moment to the Fullwood Bathurst Super2 exclusion.

[mikeamerica84]

Natsoft race results w/ fastest laps (the official race results website of the V8CFL ): ) http://racing.natsoft.com.au/results/#2