Author Topic: F1 2023 Season  (Read 1596 times)

Offline V8SuperRiley

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2022, 08:33:34 AM »
Retirement the best option unless he is truly motivated to go and race against all the old men and Euro junior formula flops that make up the grid in IndyCar.
C'mon Alan.  Really?

Jeez.....

My thoughts too.. Wrong forum for it, but IndyCar has been phenomenal! The fact it is being seen as a breeding ground for new F1 stars is proof that there is far more than 'old men and Euro junior flops'..

Offline Alan59

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2022, 07:59:24 AM »
I’m not disputing the racing is exciting although I only can watch the9 highlights.
However I will stand by my comments.Sato,Power,Dixon,Johnson,Castro Neves and others are past the age where anyone but a Hamilton or Alonso could not be a joke in F1.A lot of the younger European drivers that go there and succeed have never looked like being a contender for a F1 drive.Applies to Veekay,Palou,Aitken.Compare them to Verstappen,Norris,Piastri.As for the young Americans you can go from being an undistinguished 3rd driver for the last team on the grid to winning the self proclaimed “greatest race in the world” in a few months-see Alexander Rossi.
It is nearly humorous to see Indycar touted as a path th F1 when every driver who has made the switch in the last 30 years with the exception of Villeneuve and Montoya has been way out of their depth.
Indycar is consisiderably slower than F2 going by COTA lap time comparisons and the cars are not going to help anyone prepare for F1.
Like I said an entertaining series but……..

Offline stevo qld

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2022, 04:39:03 PM »
The most suitable outcome with the current F1 contract is, IMHO:

1. McLaren pay Riciardo his full fee for 2023, about $20M. McLaren have obviously not provided a winnable car for him.

2. They then Agree to let Riciardo drive for Alpine, a superior team anyway.

3, Alpine release Piastri in exchange, possibly with extra dollars compensation, but they do get the better driver and probably save on newby crash damage. plus they cease all expenditure on training Piastri and insert Doohan into planned F1 training sessions.

4. No team ever trusts Piastri again but unloved, untrustworthy drivers seem to win World Championships.

5. Doohan gets promoted to the Alpine Reserve job.

6. The major owners of McLaren decide that Brown has been a shambolic leader, and dump him.

7. Brown sells his less tha 6% McLaren ownership to Andretti and Latife senior also sells his 10%, or thereabouts, to Andretti. Other owners also sell part or all of their shares to Andretti.

8. The team becomes McLaren/Andretti with Andretti the CEO.

Maybe I am dreaming,, and probably am.  ::) ;D 8)
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid.
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Offline V8SuperRiley

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2022, 06:42:51 PM »
The most suitable outcome with the current F1 contract is, IMHO:

1. McLaren pay Riciardo his full fee for 2023, about $20M. McLaren have obviously not provided a winnable car for him.

2. They then Agree to let Riciardo drive for Alpine, a superior team anyway.

3, Alpine release Piastri in exchange, possibly with extra dollars compensation, but they do get the better driver and probably save on newby crash damage. plus they cease all expenditure on training Piastri and insert Doohan into planned F1 training sessions.

4. No team ever trusts Piastri again but unloved, untrustworthy drivers seem to win World Championships.

5. Doohan gets promoted to the Alpine Reserve job.

6. The major owners of McLaren decide that Brown has been a shambolic leader, and dump him.

7. Brown sells his less tha 6% McLaren ownership to Andretti and Latife senior also sells his 10%, or thereabouts, to Andretti. Other owners also sell part or all of their shares to Andretti.

8. The team becomes McLaren/Andretti with Andretti the CEO.

Maybe I am dreaming,, and probably am.  ::) ;D 8)

what's scary though, is with the event of the last couple of weeks, It's not all that ridiculous haha.

Offline mikeamerica84

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2022, 07:35:29 AM »
I’m not disputing the racing is exciting although I only can watch the9 highlights.
However I will stand by my comments.Sato,Power,Dixon,Johnson,Castro Neves and others are past the age where anyone but a Hamilton or Alonso could not be a joke in F1.A lot of the younger European drivers that go there and succeed have never looked like being a contender for a F1 drive.Applies to Veekay,Palou,Aitken.Compare them to Verstappen,Norris,Piastri.As for the young Americans you can go from being an undistinguished 3rd driver for the last team on the grid to winning the self proclaimed “greatest race in the world” in a few months-see Alexander Rossi.
It is nearly humorous to see Indycar touted as a path th F1 when every driver who has made the switch in the last 30 years with the exception of Villeneuve and Montoya has been way out of their depth.
Indycar is consisiderably slower than F2 going by COTA lap time comparisons and the cars are not going to help anyone prepare for F1.
Like I said an entertaining series but……..
Point well made Alan.  But I don't wouldn't throw them aside like you.

I can remember years back at Monaco, pre-race they were interviewing Dario Franchitti on the grid walk.  He was asked if he ever thought about F1 and he was more than willing to step up to the task, but at the time the only rides on the grid were back markers and grid fillers.  So he never left IndyCars and went on to a great career here.

The CART/IRL split of the 90s destroyed the series when it was at its peak and it is still trying to recover and is now doing so with leaps and bounds.  Guys like Will Power, Scott Dixon, Josef Newgarden, etc., never really had a good opportunity to go to F1.  Rossi was there, but Marussia/Manor was not really expected to do anything.  Hence his jump to IndyCars.  He's a good talent.

There are only so many good rides in F1.  IndyCars has a lot more opportunity.  IMSA/sports cars even more. 

These guys are good.  They just don't have the skids greased for them to get into F1.

Point well made, though sir.  Good to see we have passion on the forum.  If you want an internet lead to watch Indycars, PM me.

Cheers.

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Offline Alan59

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2022, 07:36:17 AM »
The most suitable outcome with the current F1 contract is, IMHO:

1. McLaren pay Riciardo his full fee for 2023, about $20M. McLaren have obviously not provided a winnable car for him.

2. They then Agree to let Riciardo drive for Alpine, a superior team anyway.

3, Alpine release Piastri in exchange, possibly with extra dollars compensation, but they do get the better driver and probably save on newby crash damage. plus they cease all expenditure on training Piastri and insert Doohan into planned F1 training sessions.

4. No team ever trusts Piastri again but unloved, untrustworthy drivers seem to win World Championships.

5. Doohan gets promoted to the Alpine Reserve job.

6. The major owners of McLaren decide that Brown has been a shambolic leader, and dump him.

7. Brown sells his less tha 6% McLaren ownership to Andretti and Latife senior also sells his 10%, or thereabouts, to Andretti. Other owners also sell part or all of their shares to Andretti.

8. The team becomes McLaren/Andretti with Andretti the CEO.

Maybe I am dreaming,, and probably am.  ::) ;D 8)
The most suitable outcome for me is
1.Piastri goes to McLaren and absolutely blitzes it.
2.Piastri replaces Hamilton when he retires and wins multiple world championships
3.From this Brown is regarded as a business genius who was able to bring a driver into the Mercedes “family” who won them multiple world championships
4Alpine are forever left looking like the chumps they are for passing on Piastri to try and retain a 41 year old driver.
5.Ricciardo gets a drive with Alpine and the comparison with Ocon proves to everyone whether it was just the McLaren or he just got older and slower OR he doesn’t get a drive and rides off into the sunset with $21million and Heidi Berger.

Offline mikeamerica84

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2022, 07:56:17 AM »
5.Ricciardo gets a drive with Alpine and the comparison with Ocon proves to everyone whether it was just the McLaren or he just got older and slower OR he doesn’t get a drive and rides off into the sunset with $21million and Heidi Berger.
THAT would be about the best thing to watch in 2023 if it goes that way.  I personally think this would be a GREAT deal for Dan.  I would take Alpine over McLaren right now myself, but what do I know.  I am still driving a Pontiac.

One more thing about IndyCars, Alan:  They still race ovals.  Like them or hate them, when you see a car go by at 200+ mph into a corner, and you know they are not lifting, it really gets your attention.  And then they do it about 200 more times as the laps click off.

Yes, the cars have been dumbed down, but take it from me.  In the 90s, when they still raced at Michigan International Speedway where the qually speeds were up in the high 230s, you cannot IMAGINE how fast a car can go and still be nimble enough to make moves.  That was the allure of the times for the series.  I guess I am still holding out hope that they return there some day.

O for the "old days"!   8) 
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Offline Alan59

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2022, 10:18:12 AM »
5.Ricciardo gets a drive with Alpine and the comparison with Ocon proves to everyone whether it was just the McLaren or he just got older and slower OR he doesn’t get a drive and rides off into the sunset with $21million and Heidi Berger.
THAT would be about the best thing to watch in 2023 if it goes that way.  I personally think this would be a GREAT deal for Dan.  I would take Alpine over McLaren right now myself, but what do I know.  I am still driving a Pontiac.

One more thing about IndyCars, Alan:  They still race ovals.  Like them or hate them, when you see a car go by at 200+ mph into a corner, and you know they are not lifting, it really gets your attention.  And then they do it about 200 more times as the laps click off.

Yes, the cars have been dumbed down, but take it from me.  In the 90s, when they still raced at Michigan International Speedway where the qually speeds were up in the high 230s, you cannot IMAGINE how fast a car can go and still be nimble enough to make moves.  That was the allure of the times for the series.  I guess I am still holding out hope that they return there some day.

O for the "old days"!   8)
There’s no doubt the cars were better pre Tony George.The whole series was as well.One of the things the great split did was decimate commercial and spectator interest.Look at either the level of sponsorship,tv viewer numbers or spectator crowds in the mid ‘90s and there is no comparison.That’s even before we get to the cars themselves.
I can’t watch oval racing of any sort and that’s just me rather than any implied or real criticism of it but agree with what you’re saying about the spectacular nature of such high speeds.
With McLaren v Alpine while they are pretty close at the moment Oscar would have a pretty good insight and he signed the McLaren contract as quickly as he could.When looking at where an F1 team is going I place a lot of weight on my opinion of the team principals.I would take Andreas over Otto any time even before this shambles.

Offline stevo qld

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2022, 11:29:48 AM »
Has their been any official announcement that the team Piastri has signed for is, in fact, McLaren??
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Offline skaifeman

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2022, 11:35:54 AM »
Has their been any official announcement that the team Piastri has signed for is, in fact, McLaren??

No formal word yet.
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Offline LG

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2022, 01:05:07 PM »
I read that both conrtracts Piastri has signed are legal so it's really time for the popcorn and deck chair.

Offline stevo qld

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2022, 07:54:38 PM »
There is a lot of talk from the Piastri camp that Alpine's option expired on 31 June or July. I forget which.

Quote
Will Power is adamant Daniel Ricciardo would get more enjoyment out of the 'raw, hardcore' IndyCar series than the turbulent heights of Formula 1.

In its various guises, IndyCar has long been home to drivers fresh out of F1.

The likes of Nigel Mansell, Emerson Fittipaldi, Alex Zanardi, and Takuma Sato have all enjoyed success following their switch to the North American single-seater series.

...

In F1, it's accepted that on any given weekend there are only a handful of drivers who can win – notwithstanding unusual circumstances.

In IndyCar, any of the 25 drivers has the realistic potential to win.

In 2022, there have been three different winners in F1 from 13 grands prix while there have been eight different winners in 14 races of IndyCar.

There have been 15 different podium finishers in IndyCar but only seven in F1.

Asked what makes IndyCar attractive to the ex-F1 drivers, Power replied, "They have a chance to win each week.

"They enjoy the paddock because it's a lot more friendly. Everyone talks to each other.

"Most of us have motorhomes so we're all in the paddock together. It's a great community and fiercely competitive on the track.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/other/hardcore-move-that-could-redefine-ricciardo/ar-AA10zNiG?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8a762a8941d84192853026b61f819c48


perhaps this needs to be in the IndyCar topic?  ;D
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid.
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Offline mikeamerica84

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2022, 02:27:02 PM »
perhaps this needs to be in the IndyCar topic?  ;D
No.  Dan's future wherever it might land, is pertinent to this F1 thread.

Or should I say, "F!" thread?
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Offline stevo qld

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Re: F! 2023 Season
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2022, 08:28:01 PM »
perhaps this needs to be in the IndyCar topic?  ;D
No.  Dan's future wherever it might land, is pertinent to this F1 thread.

Or should I say, "F!" thread?

F1/F! Fixed. :-[
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid.
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Offline stevo qld

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Re: F1 2023 Season
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2022, 10:56:25 AM »
Quote
Mirror
Mirror

McLaren star dubs Oscar Piastri farce "laughable" as chief Zak Brown stockpiles drivers
Daniel Moxon - Yesterday 3:58 am

McLaren driver Pato O'Ward said his Formula 1 dream is now "a very distant illusion" in the wake of the team's desire to sign wantaway Alpine driver Oscar Piastri.

The young Australian was lined up to replace Fernando Alonso in 2023, but he swiftly asserted that he would not be driving for Alpine next year. Instead, thanks to negotiations carried out by his manager Mark Webber, he plans to defect to their midfield rivals McLaren.

That move has not yet been confirmed by the Woking team, with Alpine insistent that they have a viable contract with Piastri. That mess will need to be cleaned up, as will the future of Daniel Ricciardo who could be paid off to leave a year early so his younger compatriot can race alongside Lando Norris in 2023.

But along with the impact on Ricciardo, the move would also have ramifications for an ever-growing list of drivers on McLaren's books. Many of their talents reside across the pond, with a hatful of IndyCar stars either in their stable or having been given a chance to test with the team, such as Colton Herta.

Mexican O'Ward races for McLaren's IndyCar outfit, and now appears to have written off his chances of a future switch to F1. "It doesn't do me any good to have that illusion," he told ESPN . "Up to that point I feel that I have matured in the aspect that the illusion is a very distant illusion.

"Although I am driving at a very, very high level, not even with that am I going to be able to convince them. There are many more things and policies, there are many things that are very much out of my control, that I will never be able to control and that is where I have to leave it, because it is no use marrying the illusion."

Pato O'Ward is one of McLaren's IndyCar racers
Commenting on watching the Piastri situation unfold on social media, he added: "I feel like it was laughable – I see it and I laugh. That same award [an F1 seat] has been put in front of many drivers by [chief executive Zak Brown] and sooner or later there is only one dessert, not five.


"Then the only thing that has left me thinking about that is pure laughter. It's not that I'm not part of it, yes I am, the truth is that there have been so many things that have been changing and changing more and now... I get to the same point, how does it help me to get stressed?

"The truth is that since the beginning of the year I put a stop to it and stopped thinking about it, because that idea excites you – that's why everyone wants to leave, for that illusion. But I'm a smart man and I know how things have been signing up, but it doesn't do me any good to have that illusion. And I love Indycar – I want it to grow, go to Mexico, become global, I want to help everything continue to grow because it has immense potential."

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/motorsports/mclaren-star-dubs-oscar-piastri-farce-laughable-as-chief-zak-brown-stockpiles-drivers/ar-AA10BAnD?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=10943ba3e11f4cf2a59baaa978a94974
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid.
ALBERT EINSTEIN